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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;TS10, post: 1727232, member: 47611&quot;]Hello everyone,</p><p><br /></p><p>Collect89,</p><p><br /></p><p>I checked the links you provided and shall go over them in order. My post will be long but will not be verbose as what I write is necessary in order to clarify things. So, before any of you start posting about how long it is, if you do not want to read it and learn, please do not read it and go to some other post. I am trying to bring good information to prevent and misleading those who wish to learn and to dispel myths and beliefs that are not correct as they may one day possibly cause others hardship. I say this because, what if this coin, or others like it from other members are actually error coins caused during the manufacturing process and are not caused by any PMD reasons? Then those coins are not being given the true grading they deserve, and all because some poster deemed them worthless by a &#039;flick of the pen&#039; (typing their response), and often times, the original poster believes it because they look upon some of you as experts and because they haven&#039;t been collecting as long as some of you, to them your judgement/word is sound advice which they take to heart. When someone dishes out comments like &#039;acid dipped&#039; or &#039;dryer coin&#039; so easily, you&#039;d better be sure that the information and judgement on that person&#039;s coin is both valid and true. What if they believe that their coin is worthless and they give it away, or sell if for much less than they&#039;re worth. Who is to blame? You are, all of you who post replies that may not be truth. These posters are depending on you, and you owe it to them to be sure of your answer, or do not post about its worth at all. I posted some very valid possibilities and scenarios of what may have caused my coins appearance. Can any of you offer any solid evidence showing why it is not so? And so, we move on.</p><p><br /></p><p>Have you or anyone actually did to a coin what you/they claim it is? Have you put a coin in acid, or been present when a coin was put into acid to see if what will happen to a coin and if the results done to the coin are the same? If not, why are you posting such information? If your reason is, &quot;So and so said so, and he heard if from so and so, who heard it from so and so&quot;, or maybe you read it somewhere and without checking for yourselves, you accepted it as truth. If that is so, it is not right.</p><p><br /></p><p>All through my adult life I have met and dealt with spec men. What is a spec man? They are people who read the latest specs in say, some hotrod magazine, motorcycle magazine, or other magazine that offers specs and take it as the gospel truth. I don&#039;t believe things as easily, never have. I&#039;m the guy that will go do things myself and see what results I get, and then I&#039;ll know what is truth and what isn&#039;t. What works, and what doesn&#039;t. Now, onto the links provided by Collect89.</p><p><br /></p><p>First link: Struck through grease?</p><p><br /></p><p>If you ever did try this, you&#039;d know beyond any doubt that no coin would come out looking like my coin or the coin in the link you provided.</p><p><br /></p><p>On that post, raider34 said, &quot;Looks like it has been melted.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>How many of you have actually seen a melted copper penny? How many of you have tried it yourselves? If you have, you&#039;d know it does not look like my coin or the coin in the link. Don&#039;t believe me, try it, then post what results you got. From what I got from this article, melting U.S. coins is not a crime, so long as the reason you are doing it (fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens) is not to fraudulently fool someone, or to pass it of as something it is not, or for profit:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_illegal_to_melt_coins.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_illegal_to_melt_coins.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.coinflation.com/is_it_illegal_to_melt_coins.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>The following is an excerpt of that webpage:</p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;Is it Illegal to Melt U.S. Coins?</p><p><br /></p><p>Published June 26, 2006</p><p>Written by Alec Nevalainen</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I&nbsp; get emailed this question at least once a week, sometimes more. It&#039;s a&nbsp; reasonable question, many governments (including our neighbour to the&nbsp; north) have laws that make coin melting illegal, but the U.S. government&nbsp; is not one of them... at least not yet.</p><p><br /></p><p>Where does it say that&nbsp; you can melt coins? Well, that&#039;s part of the problem. It doesn&#039;t say&nbsp; anywhere that the U.S. government is ok with this. But, go to the U.S.&nbsp; Mint web site and search for &quot;illegal&quot;. You&#039;ll get this result:</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal&nbsp; penalties for anyone who fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates&nbsp; impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins&nbsp; coined at the Mints of the United States. This statute means that you&nbsp; may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and&nbsp; fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is.&nbsp; As a matter of policy, the Mint does not promote coloring, plating or&nbsp; altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such&nbsp; activity absent fraudulent intent. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The keyword is&nbsp; fraudulent. When you take a 25 cent piece and try to pass it off as a&nbsp; Sacajawea Dollar, that&#039;s fraud. When you take a Buffalo Nickel, and&nbsp; scratch out one of its legs and try to sell it as a rare collectible,&nbsp; that&#039;s also fraud. But when you melt a pre-1982 cent, and sell it for&nbsp; its copper value, that&#039;s genuine and legal (EDITOR&#039;S NOTE: Please see&nbsp; update at bottom of this page regarding U.S. cents and nickels).</p><p><br /></p><p>Also, silver refiners have been melting coins for decades. Precedent is on your side. &quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>Copper&#039;s melting point is 1,984°F</p><p>Zinc&#039;s melting point is 787.2°F</p><p>The copper pennies from 1982 are 95% Copper/5% Zinc which makes those pennies a brass alloy, not bronze as some think they are. There, an example of false information passed along and believed by others who read it. Want another?</p><p><br /></p><p>On this webpage on the Lincoln Cent Resource Community website:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://lincolncentresource.com/smalldates/1982.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://lincolncentresource.com/smalldates/1982.html" rel="nofollow">http://lincolncentresource.com/smalldates/1982.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>it says, &quot;our government makes a handsome profit when it creates coins and paper</p><p>money.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>Our government does not make or print our money. Our money is made and printed by the Federal System (a whole bunch of Federal Reserve Banks), a privately owned institution. Go through any encyclopedia, even the old ones, and it will tell you so. Even Wikipedia will tell you this:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System</a></p><p><br /></p><p>From Wikipedia: &quot;The Federal Reserve System has both private and public components, and was designed to serve the interests of both the general public and private bankers. The result is a structure that is considered unique among central banks. It is also unusual in that an entity outside of the central bank, namely the United States Department of the Treasury, creates the currency used. According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve System &quot;is considered an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by the Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>There are a lot more sites that tell you this too, but this is not the purpose of this post. The purpose was to show you that just because you read something on a site, it isn&#039;t necessarily true.</p><p><br /></p><p>the same site (Lincoln Cent Resource Community website) continued with:</p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;1982 was chosen as the transition year to put this change into effect, and many millions of</p><p>solid copper and copper-coated zinc cents were produced in 1982 so as to discourage saving</p><p>or hoarding by the public.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>The 1982 &#039;solid copper&#039; penny wasn&#039;t solid copper, but an alloy made of the percentages shown above (95% copper/5% zinc). Yet many who read this may also then believe that they were made of solid copper. </p><p><br /></p><p>My point is this, had I not known the real truths regarding these 2 examples I&#039;ve posted, I&#039;d most likely believe what this site told me. Was there any reason not to believe? It seems like a very informative and knowledgeable site. So too, other people who do not know the truth would also believe those 2 statements there. So you can see that is it very important for you to know whether what you are posting is truth, or someone&#039;s opinion of truth, or even just your unfounded opinions as others who read what you post may not know and accept your facts as infallible truths.</p><p><br /></p><p>This does not mean that when the penny&#039;s temperature hits 787.2 degrees it will melt and collapse into a puddle. Because the penny is only comprised of 5% Zinc, the Copper will hold the penny&#039;s integrity until a much higher temperature.</p><p><br /></p><p>For the sake of this discussion, we will say that the heat source is a Map/Mapp gas torch or Acetylene gas welding outfit (not electronic MIG, TIG, or Arc welders, and yes, I have all 4). When you heat the penny to its melting point, the metal will start to puddle/flow. What do you think will happen to the small letters and fine details? They&#039;re going to disappear. With the heat required to melt the coin and to start the metal flowing, no person can control it to the degree to have an outcome of this pattern/design. If so, I challenge you, all you doubters and spouters who try and shoot down a persons coin so quickly before doing any serious scientific studies. People who are not as knowledgeable come to places like this forum to learn, to get help, and to help others when they can. Do not promote nor propagate false knowledge to others. That is the same way the theory of the world being flat, or that the sun circled our planet evolved.</p><p><br /></p><p>Pyrbob said, &quot;I think this coin was soaked in an acid. This is a major acid coin.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>No again. A lot of posters instantly say acid dip even though they have no experience at all with putting a coin in acid. In the link &#039;pmd nickel?&#039;, is could be acid dipped as the rim edge on the inside is very thin. A good way is to measure the outside diameter with vernier calipers/dial indicator, and the thickness of the coin. If it was dipped in acid, it will both smaller in diameter as well as thickness. But as I said before, the letters on my penny are of standard height if not higher. If it were dipped in acid, how is it possible that the letters are still high?</p><p><br /></p><p>In the link &#039;1982-P with odd texture...&#039;</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;eddiespin was quick to spout off, &quot;Acid job.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>But was countered with slippinin writing, &quot;You think so? Doesn&#039;t look like that to me. Also, if this was acid, how is there a line on the right side of the eagle on the reverse that doesn&#039;t have the effect?&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p>There were 7 people on that post that said the coin was exposed to acid. All of them professionals with backgrounds in chemistry I suppose, or did the acid experiment themselves. Too many spec men, too little real knowledge.</p><p><br /></p><p>I was also asked by Collect89 to measure the penny, which I did. These are the diameter and thickness measurements gotten by rotating the penny or moving it from end to end at. I only rotated it halfway as going beyond that would yield the same results.</p><p><br /></p><p>18.95mm diameter</p><p>19.02mm diameter</p><p>19.04mm diameter</p><p>19.03mm diameter</p><p>19.08mm diameter</p><p>19.04mm diameter</p><p><br /></p><p>1.49mm thickness</p><p>1.63mm thickness</p><p>1.53mm thickness</p><p>1.50mm thickness</p><p><br /></p><p>It does not seem overly larger or smaller than a normal 1982 cent. My evaluation stands. and it makes the most sense.</p><p><br /></p><p>non_cents, Have you ever dipped a coin in acid and gotten results that look like my coin? Have you heated and melted a coin and gotten results even similar to my coin? Have you put a coin in a dryer and gotten results even similar to mine? Please show me your results. Sorry, but I do not respect your advice and views anymore. You were so quick to deem my coin valueless and PMD with no proof other than spouting off things you obviously know nothing about. And yes, I know what acid does to a coin. I know what flame and heat does to a coin, and I definitely know a dryer doesn&#039;t do this to a coin. I can prove my statements, can you?</p><p><br /></p><p>So please, do try to make your acid cent, you dryer cent that looks like my coin, or Jim_M&#039;s coin. Again, it is not against the law to do so either as long as you are not trying to pass the coin off as something else, or for profit. </p><p><br /></p><p>All of you who jump to conclusions and quickly assertain that a coin is worthless, shame on you. My theory on what happened to this coin is the most valid and none of you have brought up any points to dispel it. Can you? I&#039;d like to see it. I am new to coin collecting, and to forums, but I am by no means new to science, logic, and facts, which is what I brought to this coin&#039;s posting.</p><p><br /></p><p>I will not bother posting regarding the rest of the links as they too do not make sense. Just as some &#039;expert&#039; told poor Jim_M that his coin&#039;s appearance was caused by drum roll (that&#039;s laughable), and an acidic solution to get it to an almost acidic state (what process was used to reconstitute it to a coin with all the features intact?), all of you who think acid and drum roll/dryer really have any clue, do you? Just look at the rear of Lincoln&#039;s head. See all those lines with the same profile as his head? What could cause that? I&#039;ll tell you, not acid, and not a drum roll/dryer. That was caused in the mint and no where else. I challenge all of you who say it&#039;s acid or drum roll/dryer to produce a coin like ours. Let your works produce what your mouths so easily say.</p><p><br /></p><p>I tried to get my point across without &#039;stepping on too many toes&#039;, but I&#039;ve had it with armchair experts. Prove me wrong.</p><p><br /></p><p>Best of luck[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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