We often debate grading. I thought this was a solid example of "strong in grade."

I had a request for a brighter exposure, so here it is. Once again, I say "textbook MS 65." Good natured debate here.

 

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First off let me say that I think your coin is beautiful as I am a sucker for toning. OK, with that said I recently got the chance to sit in the same room as David Hall, Ronald Guth, and Mike Sherman (the PCGS grading 101 course at the LB Expo). During the Q & A I asked what was the greatest source of info on the grading process and learning the high points on Morgan Dollars and ALL 3 of them at almost the same time answered "How To Grade US Coins" by Jim Halperin. They said it was free online, but I used my iPad right then and there to purchase a physical copy for my self. They basically were saying that what was inside of that book was and still is "The Industry Standard."

In chapter 2, on page 23, it goes over the 4 criteria that are used to grade coins. 1) Surface Preservation 2) Strike 3) Lustre 4) Eye Appeal. Under Surface Preservation, it states "This includes the presence of bagmarks, hairlines from cleaning or mishandling, and other imperfections of planchet, whether mint caused or man made. An analysis of surface preservation attempts to weigh the visual impact of these imperfections based on their degree of severity and their location on the coin." Then after the next 3 steps are explained, this is the next thing written in the book, "I believe surface preservation is the single most important factor in grading mint state coins. The other three factors appear to be approximately equal in value, each about half as important as surface preservation. (i.e. 40% + 20% + 20% + 20% = 100%). Sorry for rambling, but my point is that yes, Strike is important... According to PCGS, it is only half as important as Surface Preservation though. Again, I think your coin rocks

 

Here is my 1878 CC that PCGS called a MS-64PL. Sorry, I don't have a reverse image, but it is really as clean as the obverse. I have always thought this coin was graded a bit tight, and to me it looks nicer than the the OPs coin which graded MS-65. Of course, I am partial to PLs. I wonder if it would be eligible for the Doug bean?

 

Doug, I am sorry but although I respect you, I cannot take your grading seriously. Nothing against you--you are experienced, a nice guy, and obviously love coins. However, when 80-90% of the people will say MS 64 or MS 65 and you say AU 58, YOU are being unrealistic--nothing personal, but your grading standard is so much more severe than the rest of the world. Perhaps you have some bias against what you think is overly lenient grading by the TPGs, but I just don't agree with you most of the time. Nothing whatsoever personal--just a professional difference. I honestly have been collecting Morgans for so long that I feel my grading and observation skills are strong for that series. Are they better than everybody else? NO. However, I also trust TPG standards far more than you do, and I will say for the 50th time--THEY get it right 95% of the time. Yes, I think my coin is in the same rubric as the PCGS photo grade and stand by my feeling that it is a "garden variety" MS 65, with pretty toning. Had it not been so, I would not have bought it. Besides, it looks prettier in hand.

 

Changing the "exposure" of the images doesn't help. Retake the photos and actually put some light on the COIN. :scratch: You can't fix bad photography in post-processing in this case.

My problem with the coin being a 65 is the obverse. The pictures you posted are not good, so I'm only going from what I can see. But, I see lots of marks, and I really dislike the spotting and white crud that appears to be muting the luster in the entire lower left quadrant (6 o'clock to 9 o'clock). When I first opened your post, my eyes read "MS63" on the holder pictures -- and I thought, "that's a nice looking MS63 common Morgan". Then, I read your post, and realized the holder said MS65. My thoughts were then, "Wow, that's a low end MS65 Morgan, looks MS64 to me". I honestly think your coin would not CAC -- that is, it is in my eyes a low-end "C" quality MS65 coin at best.

To each his/her own I guess.

 

Sorry, but the only conclusion I can draw from your remarks is that you have little or no experience with Morgan dollars if you call that a "C" quality low-end Morgan. Yes, to each his/her own, but intelligence about the series is implicit. I find your remarks "personal" as opposed to educational "I don't like spotting and white crud." That isn't an appropriate numismatic evaluation, but personal prejudice. Sorry, but that dawg don't hunt.

 

Morgandude11, let me give you a little bit of the benefit of my tenure here. Doug collected nothing but Mint State condition coins. FWIW, when he gives one of my coins an AU58, I know I have a cinch at a TPG MS64 or better.

PS: Oh, and I don't necessarily think he's biased against the way those morons grade.

 

I don't recall making any "personal" remarks here. You are the one that likes to jump immediately to ad-hominem attacks and accuse people of not being able to grade Morgans every time you post one.

I have seen thousands of Morgans. I think I can grade them pretty well, even though I personally own just two (I find them an ugly design). Just because I don't care for the Morgan design, doesn't mean that I'm personally attacking you. When you post a picture of a coin on a coin forum, you are opening yourself up to opinions, discussion, and comments. I gave you mine. Instead of addressing my comments, you'd rather just be dismissive and call me uneducated (for example, what are the white puddles on the obverse -- they look like dip residue to me -- see my attached picture).

People like you crack me up. They collect one type of coin, and they get insulted when any discussion is started on a coin they post. If your sensitive to criticism and discussion on coins you post, then why do you continue to post pictures of them? Good grief.

 

Did somebody say something, or are they on my ignore list. lol :dead-horse:

 

I agree to much chatter and the 2 hits in the feilds. Strong 64 low end 5 IMO. Would I pay 5 money for it? Nope not even with someone else's money.

 

That's awesome, I would buy every coin with that on the slab knowing that I would get a three point upgrade upon resubmission.

 

lmao. You are reading my mind. I was going to say that a GD beanie means the coin is over-graded by at least 5 grades.

 

I don't get it.

 

Doug is known for being a very good, but very strict grader.

 

...like my Pops always said..."if you are young and not a liberal; you don't have a heart...if you are old and not a conservative; you don't have a brain."