Here's a coin I purchased today feeling confident that it was ms-63. The coin has an attractive luster. Here's where I usually get confused... There seems to be a more objective standard with Washington's from 63 down, but from 63 up it seems to get a bit subjective and unclear. For instance, the Red Book states: MS-63: No trace of wear. Light blemishes. Attractive mint luster. MS-64: A few scattered contact marks. Good eye appeal and attractive luster. MS-65: Only light, scattered contact marks. Good eye appeal and attractive luster. Bower's Guide Book states: MS-63: A Mint State coin with attractive mint luster, but noticeable detracting contact marks or minor blemishes. MS-65 No trace of wear; nearly as perfect as MS-67 except for some small blemishes. Has full mint luster but may be unevenly toned or lightly fingermarked. May be weakly struck in one small spot. A few barely noticeable nicks or marks may be present. I find the bold text ambiguous and confusing. I'd like for members to try and help me correlate those ambiguous, subjective, and relative terms with an actual grade. Here's a coin I can objectively state has contact marks. I don't know if they're light or what. Blemishes...you be the judge. I'd just like to, I should say I really need to, get over this MS-63 hurdle with this series because it is my collecting focus. The coin is blast white. Any golden toning is a result of poor lighting. Obverse Luster: Reverse Luster: Obverse Closeups: Reverse Closeups:
From this picture these areas are of some concern for me. I'm not sure if it is the strike or not but at least to me these areas look like slight rub. Washington quarters are one of the tougher series to grade accurately. A lot of the coins are flat and not so well struck. Some of the AU Washington quarters that I see are really really nice with lots of luster but still AU. The text does appear to be very vague tho. For me an nice ms63 Washington quarter is going to have full unbroken luster with a few light contact marks in the fields.
Well the coin pictured, looks cleaned? The way those scratch marks are going and the visibility of them, sets off a sign of cleaning The coin pictured looks to have some wear on it, or the rub that dutchman was talking about The coin you have could be an AU, with that rub, keeping it from a 63, possibly a 64 Please Note, washingtons are tough ones to grade, I don't think I can say I've ever graded one accurately! LOL
There's obviously something going on when you look at the coin magnified. I can't think of anything other than cleaning that would create hairlines like that? What a kick in the teeth. I'll have to bring this one back. I can't say I look forward to that though. Even under 10x I had a hard time seeing the lines so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Looks like a few hairlines from mishandling. I'd call it a 63 or perhaps a 62 if they are really bad in-hand. I see no evidence of cleaning.
The coin is very beautiful in hand. You can't see the lines at 6x magnification. The reverse pic (#2) is representative of its luster and appearance. I want to keep this coin and definitely want to know its cleaned before I start calling people out and asking for refunds.
I believe it is AU- because of wear (pale gray metal) on the high points of the hair curls, and to a lesser extent on the lower neck-- and cleaned, from the hairlines crossing the bust. There are also hairlines in the fields that cut across the flow lines which look too long and wispy to be die polish marks. It's still an attractive coin.
ksparrow, I respect your opinion and knowledge but I just do not see the wear your describing with coin in hand. I swear this camera plays tricks on us! With this lighting it seems to highlight the definition a little more even though it is a relatively weak struck coin. Just to show you guys how tricky this camera is...
IMO only, I agree with ksparrow but it's a beautiful coin, and if you want it then, if was not too expensive, keep it. You may want to contact the seller and show him/her the "evidence" and ask for a better price instead of returning it and costing both of you unnecessary $$s. I just did that with a seller on ebay and we both agreed that only a $5 refund would satisfy me and him so I wouldn't have to send it back and he wouldn't have to re-list it. It doesn't hurt anyone to ask. Do what you think is best. It's your coin. Bruce
It can be very hard to tell if a Washington quarter is au or ms; I have been fooled several times. I am just offering an opinion based on the photos-- no substitute for having the coin in front of me! I find that rotating the coin under a point source light (or rotating the light over the stationary coin) will show up areas of wear as a 'pewter' color, typically on top of the curls around the ear, the top of the maxillary bone (just below the eye) and the front of the hairline on the forehead. If those areas don't show any difference from the rest of the surface, it's MS.
It is a very nice coin, indeed. Like I said: keep it if you like it and try for a partial refund from the seller. What do you have to lose? Good Luck Bruce
I think this is spot on! I don't think the coin has been cleaned, or least you can't tell from the pics, and that the marks you see are from improper handling not cleaning. Possibly slide marks from albums with the clear plastic that slides above and below the coin. As for the confusing language, Jesse: Don't try to reconcile the two descriptions because while they both use the same words, those same words mean different things. Personally, I think Bowers is an excellent numismatic mind and of the two, the one that I would pay attention to. Not to say that Bressett is a hack writer, but of the two, I think Bowers is more knowledgeable and communicates his message better. Grading Washingtons is not easy. In fact, it's IMHO the most difficult series in the 20th century to grade. The best way to learn the differences is to look at a lot of coins and compare them in your mind. Once you start to see many examples of MS-63 and MS-65, the difference in the type of marks mentioned will become clearer. This is a great series to cherrypick dealers for, because a lot of dealers have a hard time with this series too. If you can discern when the dealer is undergrading a coin, then you can usually find a nice bargain. I did this once with a dealer on a 1921 Peace dollar. He graded it MS-63, I graded it a high-end MS-64, and given a good day at a TPG could get an MS-65 slab. The guy who I trust the most as far as grading eye said "They'll 64 it!". little did he know that I paid 63 money for it. The difference in value between a 63($500) and a 64($850) is big, but if it slabs 65 it is a $2,000 coin.
Guys, I really appreciate your input. ksparrow, I know exactly the pewter wear your describing and those pictures certainly suggest that it is present. In hand it is not. Here's a couple of interesting obverse facts noted in the Washington Guide Book: In 1938 "the profile details of Washington were strengthened slightly" -Bowers, 48 In 1944 "the profile details of Washington were strengthened slightly and minor changes were made in the peruke and ribbon - Bowers, 49
Thanks Mike, your post has really lowered my blood pressure lol. So much is so true! I started considering myself capable of intelligently purchasing Washington's and then this...lol. Guess I'll need to look at another thousand more. I couldn't see those hairlines when I bought it. Purchase Price: Marked B.U. / $25
