Was researching Capped Bust Halves on Heritage when I stumbled on this atrocity.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    What is "ETA"?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Estimated Time of Arrival
     
    NSP, green18, CoinCorgi and 1 other person like this.
  4. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser I may be old but I still appreciate a pretty bust Supporter

    Ummm, could it possibly be when you stated "Somebody paid somebody off, somewhere along the way......" Accusing a commercial organization of accepting bribe money is definitely libelous unless you can prove it true.
     
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    It has long been insinuated that certain submitters get preferential treatment. It has never been proven, and if it were that would be a huge crack in the foundation of the TPGs. I, personally, don't believe it is true - but the conspiracy theorist types love to repeat this trope.
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Michael K, posted: "I wasn't going by the hairlines to indicate a cleaning.
    It's an 1811 with an unnatural blast white appearance. I find it hard to believe that
    All of these 200 year old silver coins were stored in a humidity free vacuum for 200 years. The chances that it has been cleaned at some point is at least 99%.
    Even a 200 year old coin that has not been handled or circulated much,
    is still going to have toning regardless to the storage method. And not that
    tiny bit of toning on the edge that the dip didn't remove."

    Nothing new here. Over 80% of the coins in AU to MS are not original.

    SilverDollar2017, posted: "Wow. Those are some huge scratches. That should definitely get a details grade, no way is that market acceptable."

    I just thought of a possibility. I just straight graded a Barber half F-12 with a gash on the face. In the notes, I mentioned the easily seen mark. Then it dawned on me...perhaps that half in the OP has been straight graded because the damage is so obvious that it does not need to be indicated!

    Only the commercial value = AU-55. What do you guys think about that?
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  7. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Crazy talk. So the secondary job of the TPG's (behind market grading by professionals and preserving the coin in a slab) is to point out hidden problems that the average Joe doesn't see? To the point of not having to mention glaringly obvious problems? So then why write, "Holed" on a slab? Can't everyone see the hole?
     
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I strongly disagree. The whole idea of "sight unseen" grading is that you should be able to confidently buy a coin without even seeing it, it knowing that the coin would meet widespread market acceptability at that grade. Sure there will be variations in condition based on subjectivity, but that should be within understood tolerances. A dip here, an ancient cleaning there..... but not a huge gash and tooling across the entire obverse. That's unacceptable, even if you're blind and you're grading by touch.

    Any coin with a gash like this should be instantly discredited in the market. This should instantly discredit the TPGs supposed sight-unseen market.
     
  9. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    100% correct, Jason. Directly from the PCGS website regarding details grades according to Mike Sherman.........

    Source:
    https://www.pcgs.com/news/my-coin-got-a-details-grade-what-does-that-mean
     
  10. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Kripes, I'm glad I don't own this coin.........you guys would make me go into my 'hiddy hole' and I'd never come out.......
     
    Santinidollar and Kentucky like this.
  11. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Yes your words are libelous. This has became a habit for you. Be careful, it's going to catch up with you.
     
    Insider likes this.
  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    You suggested that PCGS was open to bribes. That is the libel. Should PCGS prove that your claim is untrue, you could be in a deep world of hurt
     
    Santinidollar and Insider like this.
  13. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    Oh no. Am I gonna get sued?? I’m not going to sleep tonight...... waiting for the court to serve me papers....

    No, actually, my words are not libelous. I did not say without a doubt that they were definitely paid off, or fabricate proof that they were paid off, I said I reckon they were. If we are going to cry “libel” at every unpopular opinion, we might as well censor everything that does not align with popular opinion and ban the freedom of expressing opinion.

    I am flabbergasted at the number of folks that feel that PCGS is infallible and can do absolutely no wrong.
     
  14. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    Is there a way we can prove that they do? We have no idea what happens behind closed doors, only can guess and form our own opinions...... There’s shadiness and chicanery in every field, numismatics is no exception. Cynical opinions do not equate to libel.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  15. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Please share with us. Who said that? I don't know of anyone that has ever said that.
     
    Kentucky and Insider like this.
  16. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    Nobody has ever explicitly stated it, yet the way members are quick to defend them and take exception to my suspicion that they could possibly (added that in so it’s not “libelous”) be dishonest seems to indicate it.
     
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I see it for what it is and that's a very lustrous coin with real nice details. I do hate the mis -hap with the staples. I think what is trying to be portrayed, is that an in hand inspection of the coin would result in accidental damage and deem it circulation damage.
    It should be a details grade in my opinion. I am at "high" XF at best.
    It's a gracious grade.
     
    1916D10C likes this.
  18. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Can that mark be anything other than a gouge?
    And if so, it has to be details. There's really not much gray area on this particular
    coin.
    The only thing I can think of is it got damaged AFTER grading. But how could that
    happen?
    This needs to be returned and regraded. But that's not happening.
    I can't even believe someone bought this overpriced coin, and I wonder if it was a shill.
     
  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    1916D10C, asked: @Insider, can you enlighten me as to why you are calling out my post for being "libelous" (which it is not) yet in your same post, you say this:..."

    :facepalm::rolleyes: The difference with what you posted about PCGS and what I posted about Heritage is simple English. Apples and oranges. Now, look up the meaning of the word.

    CLICK! :muted::smuggrin:



    C-B-D, and physics-fan3.14,

    I'm in agreement with all of you, the coin should not be straight graded BUT IT WAS by a group of well-paid professionals who examine lots of coins. That being the case, I'm looking for a plausible reason.

    A hole in a coin is different than any other form of PMD. I can think of something worse. :D A coin that has been chopped in half. o_O

    Additionally, you can quote the PCGS site all you wish. Things were different in 1986. AFAIK, very little "sight unseen" purchasing goes on anymore except by the big market makers when the little guys unload stock for cash or wholesale recent OTC purchases.
     
  20. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Who was defending them? Everyone was just saying how stupid your post were.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  21. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Lest not forget that Biscecting die crack, Some of these coins with damage as such get snagged up for the preservation of a die state. I am starting to take a liking to the coin.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page