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<p>[QUOTE="Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, post: 7893526, member: 99554"]I only have in my german vocabulary 10 words; nine are related to numismatic and one to to my favorite album from the rock band U2. So when I read in a recent CGB auction the term <b>abschlag </b>d'aureus, I was not sure at all what they were talking about. The wise thing to do would be to ask someone who knows both the german language and coins; so I communicate with one of our member, [USER=80783]@Julius Germanicus[/USER]. He explained me that the word means "discount"in a financial setting. But in a numismatic context, it "is a coin that is struck using original dies but in a metal that does not match that of the normal denomination. This could be either a trial strike in billon for a silver or gold type (several Aurei and Medallions are only known from corresponding trial strikes) or a presentation piece struck in silver or gold of a coin usually struck in a lesser metal". Here is the coin in question with its equivalent in gold:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1362273[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>The German term <b>Abschlag</b>, meaning "offstrike," implies that these rare bronze strikes from aureus dies were irregular, perhaps test strikes or mistakes.</p><p><br /></p><p>For the hypothesis of the monetary test strike to be supported, it would have to meet at least these two conditions: 1) it is necessary to ensure that this or these types correspond perfectly or almost perfectly to known monetary types (except if this is a preparatory test for a type never produced). 2) it is also necessary that the test certifies a state prior to that of the coins struck or prior to the degradation of the die put into service. Most of the cases listed do not stand up to such an analysis. Many <b>abschlag</b> sold lately contained that kind of description:</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>-we <i>could</i> be facing a pseudo-argenteus “abschlag”.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>-an Abschlag (offstrike) from dies intended for striking gold pieces of the value of 4 aurei. <i>None of the issues in gold, if such there were, are known</i> to survive today, but such high-value gold presentation pieces must frequently have been melted down.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>-This aurelianus is <i>reminiscent</i> of an abschlag (monetary test strikes according to the German classification).</p><p><br /></p><p>Some examples I found :</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1362275[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1362276[/ATTACH] </p><p>(On this specimen only the obverse is a die-match)</p><p><br /></p><p>Enough of them survive, however, to demonstrate that they must have been produced intentionally, and were probably meant to circulate. Some scholars believe that such coins were produced to be distributed in special occasions along with their twins aureii, maybe as ceremonial pieces. </p><p><br /></p><p>I'll show in conclusion 2 "unusual" <b>abschlag </b>that I did not know existed. The first is our friend Julius' favorite: the famous LYON LEAD MEDALLION:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1362277[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>Inscription on the upper half: SAECVLI FELICITAS, “felicity of the age”</p><p><br /></p><p>Inscription on the lower half: MOGONTIACVM CASTEL Fl(uvius) RENVS</p><p><br /></p><p>It was found in 1862 during some excavations made in the Saône, near Lyon. In 1870 it was sent to the Cabinet des Médailles de Paris. The <b>70 mm</b> piece found in the Saône corresponds in fact to a lead proof of the reverse of a gold medallion. This must have been a medallion somewhere in the range of 36 to 100 Aurei. It is also important to recall that Roman medallions were produced in order to commemorate exceptional events. However, as we do not have any real medallion bearing on the reverse the image represented on this proof, we cannot answer the question of whether this type of medallion was actually produced and distributed. In the upper half of the medallion, on the left, two Roman soldiers, each bearing one helmet, one shield, and a spear can be seen. In addition, two laureate Emperors whose heads are adorned with halos are represented. The identity of these emperors has been debated and is of course connected to the issue of the dating of the coin. Who are they ? Diocletian (left) and Maximian (right) ? Constantius I(left) and Maximian (right), or even Valentinian I and Gratian ?</p><p><br /></p><p>The 2nd special specimen: a BAR KOKHBA REVOLT "<b>abschlag</b>".</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1362274[/ATTACH] </p><p>Ae rectangle 22 x 16mm 6.46g</p><p>Showing evidence of having been chopped from a larger piece of flat bronze before striking.</p><p>Same dies as Mildenberg 1984:205, No.65 (o:14 r: 37)</p><p><br /></p><p>A rectangular piece of casually cut bronze, struck with a known die pair for undated Bar Kokhba denars, is thought to be the first known test strike from the Bar Kokhba Revolt. Based on the known test-strike from the ancient Greek world, one should ask why this Bar Kokhba test strike is made from a bronze fragment, and not lead. The logical answer is that the Bar Kokhba mint did not include a smelting and flan-manufacturing operation. Instead, all Bar Kokhba bronze and silver coins were struck upon previously circulating coins that had been especially prepared for re-striking at the Bar Kokhba mint. Therefore, unlike other mints, which included materials and equipment for making flans, Bar Kokhba’s mint had no reason to store raw metal such as lead, an element common in bronze alloys.</p><p><br /></p><p>Sadly I do not have any <b>abschlag </b>in my collection to show off. But maybe you do ? Please tell me your opinion : were they TEST STRIKE or SPECIAL PRESENTATION PIECES ?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, post: 7893526, member: 99554"]I only have in my german vocabulary 10 words; nine are related to numismatic and one to to my favorite album from the rock band U2. So when I read in a recent CGB auction the term [B]abschlag [/B]d'aureus, I was not sure at all what they were talking about. The wise thing to do would be to ask someone who knows both the german language and coins; so I communicate with one of our member, [USER=80783]@Julius Germanicus[/USER]. He explained me that the word means "discount"in a financial setting. But in a numismatic context, it "is a coin that is struck using original dies but in a metal that does not match that of the normal denomination. This could be either a trial strike in billon for a silver or gold type (several Aurei and Medallions are only known from corresponding trial strikes) or a presentation piece struck in silver or gold of a coin usually struck in a lesser metal". Here is the coin in question with its equivalent in gold: [ATTACH=full]1362273[/ATTACH] The German term [B]Abschlag[/B], meaning "offstrike," implies that these rare bronze strikes from aureus dies were irregular, perhaps test strikes or mistakes. For the hypothesis of the monetary test strike to be supported, it would have to meet at least these two conditions: 1) it is necessary to ensure that this or these types correspond perfectly or almost perfectly to known monetary types (except if this is a preparatory test for a type never produced). 2) it is also necessary that the test certifies a state prior to that of the coins struck or prior to the degradation of the die put into service. Most of the cases listed do not stand up to such an analysis. Many [B]abschlag[/B] sold lately contained that kind of description: -we [I]could[/I] be facing a pseudo-argenteus “abschlag”. -an Abschlag (offstrike) from dies intended for striking gold pieces of the value of 4 aurei. [I]None of the issues in gold, if such there were, are known[/I] to survive today, but such high-value gold presentation pieces must frequently have been melted down. -This aurelianus is [I]reminiscent[/I] of an abschlag (monetary test strikes according to the German classification). Some examples I found : [ATTACH=full]1362275[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1362276[/ATTACH] (On this specimen only the obverse is a die-match) Enough of them survive, however, to demonstrate that they must have been produced intentionally, and were probably meant to circulate. Some scholars believe that such coins were produced to be distributed in special occasions along with their twins aureii, maybe as ceremonial pieces. I'll show in conclusion 2 "unusual" [B]abschlag [/B]that I did not know existed. The first is our friend Julius' favorite: the famous LYON LEAD MEDALLION: [ATTACH=full]1362277[/ATTACH] Inscription on the upper half: SAECVLI FELICITAS, “felicity of the age” Inscription on the lower half: MOGONTIACVM CASTEL Fl(uvius) RENVS It was found in 1862 during some excavations made in the Saône, near Lyon. In 1870 it was sent to the Cabinet des Médailles de Paris. The [B]70 mm[/B] piece found in the Saône corresponds in fact to a lead proof of the reverse of a gold medallion. This must have been a medallion somewhere in the range of 36 to 100 Aurei. It is also important to recall that Roman medallions were produced in order to commemorate exceptional events. However, as we do not have any real medallion bearing on the reverse the image represented on this proof, we cannot answer the question of whether this type of medallion was actually produced and distributed. In the upper half of the medallion, on the left, two Roman soldiers, each bearing one helmet, one shield, and a spear can be seen. In addition, two laureate Emperors whose heads are adorned with halos are represented. The identity of these emperors has been debated and is of course connected to the issue of the dating of the coin. Who are they ? Diocletian (left) and Maximian (right) ? Constantius I(left) and Maximian (right), or even Valentinian I and Gratian ? The 2nd special specimen: a BAR KOKHBA REVOLT "[B]abschlag[/B]". [ATTACH=full]1362274[/ATTACH] Ae rectangle 22 x 16mm 6.46g Showing evidence of having been chopped from a larger piece of flat bronze before striking. Same dies as Mildenberg 1984:205, No.65 (o:14 r: 37) A rectangular piece of casually cut bronze, struck with a known die pair for undated Bar Kokhba denars, is thought to be the first known test strike from the Bar Kokhba Revolt. Based on the known test-strike from the ancient Greek world, one should ask why this Bar Kokhba test strike is made from a bronze fragment, and not lead. The logical answer is that the Bar Kokhba mint did not include a smelting and flan-manufacturing operation. Instead, all Bar Kokhba bronze and silver coins were struck upon previously circulating coins that had been especially prepared for re-striking at the Bar Kokhba mint. Therefore, unlike other mints, which included materials and equipment for making flans, Bar Kokhba’s mint had no reason to store raw metal such as lead, an element common in bronze alloys. Sadly I do not have any [B]abschlag [/B]in my collection to show off. But maybe you do ? Please tell me your opinion : were they TEST STRIKE or SPECIAL PRESENTATION PIECES ?[/QUOTE]
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