So as you folks would know I am hunting for a Byzantium nomisma, hyperpyron, or even a late solidus. I participated in the Roma e-sale yesterday, and was pretty confident I'd pick up something for a decent price, with many estimates from 200 to 300 pounds on some decent coins. But I was comprehensively out-bid (destroyed even) on every item, with bids well above the estimated price. Is the estimated price just to give you a false sense of hope?!?! AC
That sucks, sorry to hear. I happened to have been looking at the late Roman solidii as well, and towards the end there was one I could have won, but opted for a different type of coin instead, and won that one. By the way, with Roma is it supposed to first say you won on the lot page then a few hours in the bid history say "not won"? Does this mean they are compiling the auction results?
I lost yesterday too, I was bidding on three coins and I stop when I realize you will never resell it at that price. I am also guessing You saw that John III Hyperpyron go for 900 pounds, that might be a record.
I also participated in the Roma auction and YES the ones I had an eye on went for 3 or 4x their estimates. I was lucky enough to get one but it meant pulling a few gold teeth in order to do so
No. If that were the case, we would never see unsold lots. Interest in different coins waxes and wanes. The field is small enough that a few collectors chasing the same coin--or deciding to skip an auction--can have a great impact on closing price. In your case, I would assume that there is a resurgence in interest in Byzantine gold. Ten years ago, the opposite was true, and I often won Byzantine gold solidi for much less than the estimate. The fact that the coins that you bid on sold for much more than your bid just means that you have a good eye for really nice coins!
@ValiantKnight, the situation you mentioned of a lot you won that now shows up as not won worried me so I have just been and checked my lot I was the high bidder on. Not sure what is going on here but my coin now shows up as not won, there was no mention of a Reserve and I was the highest bidder so surely that means it is now mine. Rather confusing to say the least
I think there is simply a delay in Roma displaying the hammer prices. Later today the results will likely show and you'll see that you won the lots you think you won . I'm not sure why their new software has this post-closure delay... it certainly causes anxiety! Hopefully they'll fix this glitch-- if it is a glitch and not a purposeful behavior of the software.
The auction results would normally display the morning after a sale, and invoices would be sent out shortly thereafter. However because there are Easter public holidays on Friday and Monday, and the post-sale processes are reliant on external server IT support pushing data from site to database and back again (and who do anti-social things like not working public holidays) there will be a short hiatus until Tuesday. This does unfortunately mean a longer time until bid confirmation than usual, but good things often come to those who wait. In the meantime we’ve been hard at work getting the next sale up and running, and we recommend viewing online with a generous helping of ovoid-shaped confectionery to hand. Wishing you all a very Happy Easter, when for reasons most of us have all forgotten we celebrate in a roundabout sort of way the Saxon Great Mother goddess Eostre, whose sacred animal was the bunny rabbit and was associated with eggs, a symbol of rebirth in the springtime.
Thanks @TIF & many thanks for the reply @Rich Beale. It was my first time using your company so it is all a learning experience, I did expect delays because of the Holiday weekend so no problems there. I was not aware of how the invoice/ bid confirmation part works though and it is this that I was confused about. Thanks for clearing that up.
In addition to the above comments, keep in mind that Roma has become a well known auction house and consistently gets some really nice coins. Also, sales are very strong from late winter through spring. This will begin to slow down now, and you may find what you are looking for at the price you want during the slow summer months.
I really recommend getting an ACSearch account or checking things like the CNG archives for prices and mostly ignoring the estimate as they rarely have any bearing on the final hammer other than setting the opening bid. Some sales have many coins that wind up hammering right around the estimate but top tier houses like CNG, Roma and NAC often have coins hammering for multiples of the estimate in my experience, especially at the printed auctions. There's also usually a bit of luck involved as the same coin can easily double or halve in price depending on the venue, time, the photo and who's watching the auction. Sometimes I feel like I have a pretty good handle on it all but in every auction there seems to be at least one coin that really surprises me.
I fully feel that pain. The best way I have found to get a great deal on a coin you want is to first pay way too much for it, then the market for them will magically crash, leaving you stuck with your first mistake! I have often wondered about price estimates... I routinely see CNG and maybe a couple other auction houses give coins like a tribute penny in Ch. VF - EF an estimate of about $150 only to have it get blown out of the water at $500+ Conversely, I have seen them estimate a run-of-the-mill Samanta Deva jital at $60 when it really isn't worth much more than $25, and a few months ago I sat out on a Plotina denarius at CNG because I was eyeing the one at Leu - CNG's went for $200 under what I was willing to pay, and I got a royal beat down from my competition at Leu. Didn't win a single coin out of 20+ bids.
Another fun example of how fickle auctions can be I spotted this interesting Thasos fraction in a recent VAuctions, notable for depicting a satyr, err... having a wank: http://www.vauctions.com/ViewArchiveItem.asp?ID=45254 It sold for $155, so I didn't even think about putting in a bid for this all-around better specimen from Tauler y Fau - Higher grade, larger denomination, better style: https://www.biddr.ch/auctions/tauleryfau/browse?a=516&l=525635 A measley 26 euros on an estimate of 40!!!!
Sometimes its luck. I picked up 15 "unsold lots" in 2018. In cases, there can be really fantastic deals. However, CNG very seldom has choice "unsold items" .
Thanks all for the comments, musings, advice, and empathy. It actually does lesson the pain a little Well actually, I figured that John III Hyperpyron was the perfect red herring to distract others from some 2 other very lovely hyperpyrons (but not at lovely as that John III hyperpyron), which I was hoping to exploit. I was right in that it went for a helluva lot more than the others, but all were out of the range I was hoping to pay in the end. Yes, you're right. When I started collecting Byzantine coins many moon ago, there seemed to be much less interest in them than there is now. Yes, good advice. I think I just have to be patient. And yes, I guess that's what you expect at the high profile auctions. Thanks @Rich Beale, you too Thanks for the pro tip @red_spork, I will do.
You still have to be careful on these coins, for some reason John III coinage is hot, the prices are getting way up there for a commonly offered coin. I mentioned before that John III copied John II coinage, I am noticing the coins are being attributed to John III now without thought. I purchased last year a John II Constantinople issue that was attributed at auction as a John III. John III coins copied the Thessalonica issues and those are smaller thicker issues, the Constantinople issues are larger thinner fabric, easily differentiated. Was it an honest mistake or was it intentional because the rise in John III rd prices? I decided after losing a half dozen auctions for that style of coin, that I am going to wait to complete my John II Comnenus collection (I need two coins both Thessalonica issues). The supply is vast on these coins but right now the demand is really driving the prices up. I don't think it will last. Don't get me wrong, I will keep trying but no bid wars for me. BTW the coin that we are talking about I was certain it was a John II, it was far to nicely struck to be John III but that is a guess on my part. Good luck on your quest Aussie Collector.
