Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Fall of 269 AD.
    Victorinus had been declared emperor by the troops located at Augusta Treverorum. However, only the provinces of Gaul, Germania and Great Britain recognized him. Hispania deserted the Gallic Empire and declared its loyalty to Claudius Gothicus. This inspired the city of Autun to abandon Victorinus and declare its intention to declare itself for Claudius Gothicus. This forced Victorinus to march south and lay siege to it.
    Claudius did not send troops to the city, which was left alone without any rescuers. In the summer of 270, after a siege of seven months, the troops of Victorinus managed to take, plunder, and partially destroy the city.

    Autun defensive walls from the Roman era.

    The Roman Empire and the Gallic Empire had at least one thing in common: they both used their coinage in a purpose of propaganda, in other words promoting a particular politic cause or point of view. It was the case with the coinage of Victorinus during the siege of Autun. The period of time when the city was encircled by the Emperor troops and finally taken corresponds with the 3rd issues (3rd phase) of minting of Victorinus coinage. Two reverses known earliest in his reign have undergone some changes in order to celebrate and underline this victory : the PAX AVG had a palm , symbol of victory, added in the right field. It's possible to easily find nice specimens of this special issue for about 25$ if you keep your eyes open.

    A "regular" PAX
    19mm 2.56g
    Mairat Trier 597

    PAX with the palm
    20mm 2.43g
    Mairat Trier 596

    Rare examples of the parallel type INVICTVS appeared at the same time with a small stylized tree leaf under the floating side of Sol's mantle going to the left. The representation of this plant symbol quickly degenerates into a kind of triangle with slightly curved sides, called by the English authors Bland and Besly "hieroglyph". In the book The Cunitio and Normanby Hoards (1983) we can read:



    Rare INVICTVS "leaf" specimen, British Museum



    INVICTVS "hieroglyph" type
    21mm 2.89g
    Mairat Trier 592

    INVICTVS "hieroglyph" type, but here the triangle lost a side (worn die)
    21mm 3.33g
    Mairat Trier 592

    It's your turn now. Please show me your Victorinus, hieroglyph or Egyptians coins or anything you feel relevant !
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Very cool Hieroglyph, @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix , and nice writeup!


    RI Victorinus 269-270 CE BI Ant Gallic Empire Salus

    Egypt, 16th - 11th Century BC
    Scarab reading "Establish thy Name, Create a Child For Me", or "Amen Create for Thee All Children", measuring 17x12mm.
    ex DeVries Collection.
    For reference, see:
    Guy Brunton, British Museum Expedition to Middle Egypt, #42, Plate LXII.
    George Fraser, A Catalog of Scarabs Belonging to George Fraser, pg. 53, #450, Plate XV.
    E. Hornung, Skarabaen und andere Sigelamulette aus Basler Sammlungen, pg. 332, #715.
    Fouad Matouk, Corpus du Scarabee Egyptien, Vol. 2, Analyse Thematique, pg. 172 & 400, #1540.
    Percy Nerberry, Egyptian Antiquities, Scarabs, an Introduction to the Study of Egyptian Seals and Signet Rings, pg. 189, #7, Plate XXXIX.
    Percy Newberry, Scarab Shaped Services des Antiquities de l'Egyt...pg. 96, $36381 (dated to 19th Dynasty).
    Flinders Petrie, Buttons and Design Scarabs, pg. 21, #679 and 680, Plate XII.
    Hilton Price, A Catalogue of the Egytian Antiquities in the Possession of F. G. Hilton Price, pg. 65, #571
  4. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..cool coin(s) and info! ...i reckon i got me a 'regular' type..:) Victorinus 269-71 Gallic emperor Pax 001.JPG Victorinus 269-71 Gallic emperor Pax 004.JPG

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    To Bland and Besly's credit, it looks to my American eye as if they were using 'hieroglyph' as a metaphor. That in itself --to resort to metaphor-- 'covers a multitude of sins.' (Sorry, been rereading some Isaak Walton just lately.)

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @Alegandron, Now we got some real-live Hieroglyphs up in this house. --Except, how that thing in the lower right is a kid continues to elude me. Almost looks as if, in the medium, and on the scale of scarabs, it's already verging on the transition to hieratic. As of, what, the New Kingdom (18th-19th Dynasties, and so forth).
    DonnaML and Alegandron like this.
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    @+VGO.DVCKS , Maybe it is a woman on the bottom left that gave birth to the scarabus beetle on the right?

    robinjojo, DonnaML and +VGO.DVCKS like this.

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    No, Honest, I was reading the seated figure, pointing to him- or herself, as an ideograph, along the lines of "Establish thy Name" --granted, more in reference to an individual than to Amen, and propagation on a more specifically human scale.
    Even if I got it as badly wrong as is likely, the first of the two translations just kind of sounds a lot better. The relative literality of the first phrase seems, on a dumbly intuitive level, as being more in keeping with hieroglyphs.
    Alegandron likes this.
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    I cannot read Hieroglyphics, so I just make up “schtuff” as I go!
    DonnaML and +VGO.DVCKS like this.
  10. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    I don't believe you! There's got to be some nuance here, along the lines of your having access to some kind of hieroglyphic 'alphabet' --as are common enough, and exactly as I don't.
    Alegandron likes this.
  11. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Interesting detail I've never learned about before, @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix. I have only a few from this emperor. No hieroglyphs in the fields, either.

    The dude was certainly king of the raggedy flan, though, wasn't he?

    Victorinus, AD 269-271.
    Roman billon antoninianus, 2.63 g, 20.1 mm.
    Cologne (though CNG attributes this coin to Treveri), AD 269/70.
    Obv: IMP C PIAV VICTORINVS PF AVG, radiate, draped bust, r.
    Rev: FIDES MILITVM, Fides standing l., holding two standards.
    RIC-109; Cohen-36; AGK-5b; De Witte pl. XXVI, 22; Sear-unlisted.

    Victorinus, AD 269-271.
    Roman billon antoninianus, 2.11 g, 19.0 mm, 5 h.
    Cologne, AD 270-271.
    Obv: IMP C VICTORINVS P F AVG, radiate and draped bust, right.
    Rev: PAX AVG, Pax standing left, holding olive branch and scepter; V in left field, * in right field.
    Refs: RIC 118; Cohen 79; RCV 11175; Hunter 11.

    Victorinus, AD 269-271.
    Roman billon antoninianus, 2.29 g, 20.1 mm, 6 h.
    Cologne, AD 270-271.
    Obv: IMP C VICTORINVS P F AVG, radiate and draped bust, right.
    Rev: INVICTVS, Sol advancing left, raising right hand and holding whip in left; * in left field.
    Refs: RIC 114; Cohen 49; RCV 11170; De Witte 27; Hunter 7.
  12. Claudius_Gothicus

    Claudius_Gothicus Well-Known Member

    Great writeup on an interesting detail that I feel like would otherwise go unnoticed. My only Victorinus is a posthumous one struck on an awful flan, but in the future I'll pick up a few lifetime ones in better condition:
    Victorinus (268-270), Antoninianus, Colonia Agrippina mint.
    Obverse: DIVO VICTORINO PIO, radiate head right;
    Reverse: PROVIDENTIA AVG, Providentia standing left, holding baton and cornucopia;
    RIC 88
    Orielensis, gogili1977, Bing and 7 others like this.
  13. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    Interesting @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, I had never heard of that hieroglyph stuff before.

    Does mine qualify (the reverse die is really worn) ?
    Am I now a millionaire ?

    Victorinus, Antoninianus
    IMP C VICTORINVS P F AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust right
    INVICTVS, Sol advancing left. Star in left field
    2.7 gr
    Ref : Cohen # 49, RCV # 11170

    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
    Orielensis, gogili1977, Bing and 8 others like this.
  14. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Victorinus RIC 118 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
    Ragged flan party jp in this house. I like this because it appears to be a relatively-high silver content alloy.
    As per usually with the Gallic emperors, the reverse die is completely beat to death, but the obverse is nice and sharp.
    Orielensis, gogili1977, Bing and 5 others like this.
  15. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Don't worry RC, we are probably less than 10 person in the universe collecting Victorinus coins and knowing about those details... and by the way, I like your reference based on the De Witte study on Gallic coinage. The poor guy never got the credit he deserve for it.

    Sadly no. Quite common type. You'll have to find another way to get rich. Take my own example: I'm a millionaire since I got married 25 years ago. I was a billionaire before that time...
  16. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    Oh sorry to read that !

    :) Q
  17. Choucas

    Choucas Active Member

    Great write-up, here are some of my Victorinus, including one with that "degenerate leaf".

    PAX AVG (PIAVVONIVS).jpg PAX AVG V-° (2ème ém.).jpg PAX AVG V-° (3ème ém.).jpg

    These three are the start of a little "set" I will hopefully complete in the future, with all the obverse types and reverse variants of the PAX AVG type. I wanted a Victorinus with his name PIAVVONIVS in the legend for a while, and I could get one reasonably priced recently.
    The first with the full name IMP C M PIAVVONIVS VICTORINVS P F AVG
    The second, intermediate : IMP C PIAV VICTORINVS P F AVG
    The last, shortened : IMP C VICTORINVS P F AVG
    Orielensis, gogili1977, Bing and 6 others like this.
  18. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Very nice sub-collection @Choucas . There is another one from Trier that I'm still chasing: Mairat 558 with the full name and the Marius bust with PAX AVG reverse. It's gonna be quite a challenge; there is one in Paris, one in London, one in Berlin and there were only 4 in the Cunetio hoard. By the way, the specimens with the full name are believed to have been a donativum issue for the new Emperor. They're kind of hard to find !
  19. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & avid numismatist Moderator

    Here’s a Victorinus.

    Roman Empire (Gallic Secessionist): bronze antoninianus of Victorinus, Cologne mint, ca. 270-271 AD


    IMP C VICTORINVS P F AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of the Gallic emperor Victorinus right.
    Reverse: SALVS AVG; Salus standing left, feeding snake arising from altar and holding sceptre.

    RIC 71. Cologne mint. 270-271 AD.

    Would you like to own it, or win it on someone else’s behalf? As of this posting (Feb. 27, 2021), it is one of many prize options in my current giveaway. Click the link in my signature line. :)
  20. Alwin

    Alwin Supporter! Supporter

    VICTORINUS, Antoninianus
    Treveri, 270-271
    3.65 g - 19.5 mm
    S 11170 - C 49 - RIC Vb 114
    IMP C VICTORINVS PF AVG, Rad. bust right
    INVICTVS, Sol advancing left
  21. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

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