Victoriatus not Quinarius!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I recently retweeted this fascinating article about what the Romans actually called the imperial half denarius.

    https://twitter.com/bernard_prof/status/1370005171414130692

    Here is a favourite quinarius ... ahem, I mean victoriatus of mine.

    V793.jpg Vespasian
    AR Quinarius, 1.41g
    Rome mint, 75(?) AD
    Obv: IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG; Head of Vespasian, laureate, r.
    Rev: VICTORIA AVGVST; Victory adv. r., with wreath and palm
    RIC 793 (R). BMC 288 var. RSC 614a var. BNC -.
    Acquired from CGB, April 2016.

    Please post your name challenged coins.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Great portrait David
     
  4. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Thanks for the link David, that is very interesting. Also I love that Victoriatus
     
  5. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    My favorite victoriatus:
    20160917234502-b6a67ed0-me (3).jpg

    And a nice quinarius reviving the types of the victoriati about half a century since proper victoriati had been minted. It certainly makes sense that these coins, perhaps circulating alongside very worn earlier victoriati, would have been called victoriati as well:
    20170105234314-4659ae4d-me.jpg
     
  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..kool info & coins...:) greek hemidrachm parion c.480 bc siglos cato quinarius 005.JPG greek hemidrachm parion c.480 bc siglos cato quinarius 008.JPG
     
  7. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's interesting, @David Atherton. As I primarily collect the 2nd and 3rd centuries, I don't have many quinarii/Victoriati. But I do have one of these -- like everybody else!

    [​IMG]
    Gaius Egnatuleius, c.f. 97 BC.
    Roman Republican AR quinarius, 1.68 g, 14.6 mm, 11 h.
    Rome, 97 BC.
    Obv: C·EGNATVLEI·C·F·Q, Laureate head of Apollo, right.
    Rev: Victory left, inscribing shield attached to trophy; beside trophy, carnyx; Q in center field; ROMA in exergue.
    Refs: Crawford RRC 333/1; Sydenham CRR 588; BMCRR1 1076-77; Sear RCV 213.
     
  8. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...Hope this isn't talking out of turn, but for medievals, the textbook example might be the denar /pfennig of the earlier phases of the German empire. Here's one. COINS, JEVER, HERMANN2, LEGENDS, OBV..jpg
    COINS, JEVER, HERMANN2, LEGENDS, REV..jpg
    Duchy of Saxony. Hermann Billung (1059-1086). AR denar /pfennig of Jever (in Frisia).
    Obv. Hermann facing, crowned. +HEREMON.
    Rev. (from 9 o'clock: ) +[GE]HEREI. (Dannenberg 597.)
    Regarding the denomination, it's effectively the same dynamic as with the English penny. As with 'penny,' 'pfennig' is the Germanic word, while 'denar,' and the French 'denier,' etc., are from the usual, Latin suspect. At some point around the 12th-13th centuries, it becomes more common for the same German denomination to be referred to as 'pfennigs.' But in modern times, pfennigs were commonly abbreviated as "d.," exactly as English pennies were before decimalization.
     
  9. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Nice coin David. Here is my Victoriatus.
    039D91FE-1F28-4B2D-B40B-2213796934BC.jpeg
    Roman Republic
    Anonymous
    AR Victoriatus, mint in Sicily, struck ca. 211-208 BC
    Dia.: 17 mm
    Wt.: 3.3 g
    Obv.: Head of Jupiter right
    Rev.: ROMA; Victory right crowning trophy
    Ref.: Crawford 70/1, Brinkman Group B
     
  10. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Wow, that is seriously cool @David Atherton! Thanks for posting.

    Here's a different "quinarius" reviving the victoriatus types, actually the first one of these after a gap of about 90 years:
    victoriatus quinarius.jpg
    C. Fundanius, 101 BCE victoriatus/quinarius.

    The production of these was ordered by a Lex Clodia. I wonder if we have the text, and what it calls them...

    And here's one of the last ones, issued in Diocletian's first year:
    diocletian quinarius.jpg
    I never would have guessed this was called a "victoriatus"! This makes me pleased it has a Victory on it.
     
  11. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    CN. Lentulius Clodianus Ar Quinarius or Victoriatus??? Rome 88 BC Obv Head of Jupiter right laureate. Rv Victory standing right crowning trophy Crawford 345/2 1.79 grms 15 mm Ex Andrew McCabe collection Photo by W. Hansen 345-c.JPG One can see with this coin that there could be some confusion between this coin and the victoriatus minted about 120 year previously. However one would have thought that the difference in weight would have been significant enough to distinguish the two coins. However there is another possibility. The name may have nothing to do with a supposed memory of the older coin but what was on this one which is of course victory. Thus they knew it was a quinarius but called it a victoriatus
     
  12. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    @Severus Alexander, that is Really Cool. I need it how, this late, the convention of the laureate profile is still adhered to.
     
    Severus Alexander likes this.
  13. mikebell

    mikebell Active Member

    With the benefit of hindsight - the 'victoriatus' should be no surprise for the coin, since it invariably has this reverse. Galba seeking to restore the virtue of the republic would explain why he reintroduced it.

    My example breaks the mould since it has the Herald of the Games reverse.
    RC1000b.jpg Ex Romae Aeternae 11/2019
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  14. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    I recently learned something enlightening that I did not know before from reading Cathy King's book on Roman Quinarii. The early quinarius and victoriatus had the same amount of pure silver given the slightly less fine but heavier victoriatus and the lighter fine silver quinarius. So they were intrinsically equal in value. Here are some examples from my collection
    103-2a-BMurphy-2.24gm-B.jpg
    MT Monogram, Quinarius, Crawford 103/2a
    Era: c. 211-210 BC
    Metal: AR
    Obverse: Helmeted head of Roma r. with splayed visor; “V” behind; Border of dots
    Reverse: Dioscuri r.; Below, MT monogram; Between two exergual lines, “ROMA”.
    Mint: Apulia
    Weight: 2.24 gm.
    Reference: Crawford 103/2a
    Provenance: Purchased from Barry Murphy, December, 2013

    97-1a.jpg
    Victoriatus of Luceria with scraggly hair
    Denomination: Victoriatus
    Metal: AR
    Obverse: Laureate head of Jupiter. Bead and reel border.
    Reverse: Victory holding Wreath over military trophy. ROMA in Exergue. Archaic "L" in field between Victory and trophy
    Weight: 3.01 gm
    Reference: Crawford 98/1a
    Provenance: CNG, private purchase from Victor England, Aug 11, 2016
     
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