Vespasian As, Good 6 in an ANACS slab...or is it?

I almost never buy slabs because I cannot afford them. This one was $30 on eBay, which is a bit salty for a worn as of Vespasian.

Slabbed as a G4 Vespasian as by ANACS, but I am pretty sure that is not what I am seeing.

As if I didn't have enough trouble photographing coins, slabs make it much, much harder. Here it is:



In this photo, you can (barely) see some of the details that are making me question this attribution:



Any thoughts on this? I did check the ANACS registry and it does seem like a legit slab.

 

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I read IMP ... S VESP AVG P M TR P ...

 

Looks like a Titus dupondius.

 

My thoughts exactly, David. Here are some more photos:



Enhanced with the "T" between IMP and CAESAR, as well as the spikes in the radiate crown:



It so happens I recently obtained a same/similar coin, raw, and slightly nicer:


Titus Æ Dupondius
(80-81 A.D.)
Rome Mint
IMP T CAES VESP AVG P M TR P COS VIII, radiate head right / [CERES] AVGVST S C, Ceres standing left, holding corn-ears and torch
RIC 189 (see notes).
(12.12 grams / 26 x 25 mm)
eBay Jan. 2022
Attribution Note:
Obverse legend obscure at end, seems to be VIII based on other examples. The two possibilities for this type are:
RIC 67: COS VII (79 A.D.)
RIC 189: COS VIII

So when a slabbing company makes a mistake (here wrong about both ruler and denomination), will they reslab it (for free, I mean)? Not that I'd bother with that.

Any other error slabs out there?

 

Mike, They may not slab it again after removing it from the original slab. I think it looks awful in the slab anyway . It may be worth giving them a call & emailing a copy of this thread to them . See if you can get a freebie from them for another coin . Before NGC started seriously slabbing ancient coins I had ICG slab some nummi for me. One nummus of Constantius I came back attributed to his son Constantine the great . I called them & asked to speak to the grader who didn't understand the difference in inscriptions . They did slab it again. NGC did misattribute a Trajan provincial in my collection pictured below. Eventually I'll send that one back for a correction . They had the slab labeled Year 17, AD 112/3, but it is a Year 18 issue, AD 113/114. I did a computer photo correction of the slab insert for my files .

 

The whole ethos of slabs reminds me of what a dealer I knew liked to say about 'certificates of authenticity.' When collectors asked her for one, she'd always want to answer, 'Sure; what would you like it to say?' ...It's like, does the physical act of slabbing somehow magically add a level of numismatic acumen that the dealer didn't have in the first place?
...Nope, never bought one. I won't until not buying them becomes an act of treason.

 

I'm currently awaiting an NGC-slabbed Roman Republican denarius in the mail. There's an excellent chance I'll be removing it shortly after it arrives. More to the point, I would never have bought it if the dealer hadn't posted a photo of the coin outside the slab. It was truly impossible to see the coin well in the the photo of it taken inside the slab. I've found that to be true of most photos of slabbed coins.

 

Yikes! That's a lot of errors, Al. Maybe you ought to ask them if you can freelance for them (charging "expert consultant" fees, of course!). Thanks for sharing these.

 

...What are you buying? The coin or the slab?
...I'm kind of wired distrust binary thinking, but in this context, it smells a Lot like a zero-sum game.

 

ANACS doesn't have the same reputation as NGC. The OP coin is a good example why.

Crack it out.

 

I have exactly three slabs in my collection, all of them from eBay, all of them, bought for the coin, not the slab. All of them were priced about what I figured the coin itself is worth without the slab. In the case of the OP, I probably paid a bit too much - but then Titus dupondii are not exactly easy to find in the $30 range, even cruddy ones.

Here is the rest of my slab collection in all its glory:

Gordian III - $13.88:


Severus Alexander sestertius, $50.00 (more than I usually pay for a sestertius, or anything, really, but I thought this was an especially attractive one (and under-graded)). For better or worse, that it is in an NGC slab did enhance its potential resale value, something that influenced my buying it for sure. But mostly, I just think it is a gorgeous, low-grade sestertius with great artistry, color, centering, etc.:




I've yet to free any of the captives yet.

 

Woop, Sorry, @Marsyas Mike, I wasn't intending to impugn your or anyone else's judgment! And it does register, even from here, that in the current market, slabbing is that much more unavoidable for ancients than for medievals (where I hang out a lot more). That last post of mine was much, much more in the vein of a curmudgeon, venting because he thinks he can.
I do appreciate how you, and plenty of other people, still buy slabbed coins in a very open-eyed way, for the coin rather than the slab. My spoutage was primarily about the dealers who do this in the first place, and the novices who they often prey on in the process. The sort of practice that makes me think that the dealers themselves should go back to selling used cars ...where, from the look of it, some of them came from to begin with.

 

...Except that personally, I have trouble generating a lot more respect for NGC.

 

No need to apologize! I just didn't want you to think I was a slab enthusiast - rather I am a bottom-feeder all the way. As noted above, every once in a while, a slab comes my way and as with everything else, if the price is like and I find it appealing... The main reason I posted the OP was that I was amused that two rather important things were slabbed incorrectly (ruler and denomination). And I wanted to check to make sure my hunch was correct (thank you, @David Atherton)

In any case, some of my favorite people are curmudgeons (and I may fall into that category myself, the older I get).

The slab situation as a whole is kind of puzzling to me. At its worst, it kind of makes even ancient coins have a sort of Franklin Mint collector's appeal that can be alluring to the beginner, not necessarily in a good way. For instance, I find it hard to believe that an MS65 2003 US quarter is ever going to be worth the plastic it was encased in. But in other areas, there does seem to be a lot of "value-added" with a slab, separate from the coin itself. Personally, I'd rather handle them without the plastic barricade, but if somebody likes slabs, that's okay with me.

As with anything else, if you know what you're doing, slabs are probably sometimes a good investment. Since I don't know what I'm doing, I stay away from 'em (unless an eBay accident happens).

 

Many thanks, @Marsyas Mike, for the reassurance, to start with, and your further observations, with which I couldn't agree more.

 

Nice congrats!

Here is my only Vespasian:

 

I think the difference is that a COA can be printed by just about anyone with a color printer.

Whereas NGC slabbing something is just a way of signifying: “This is what our ancient coin experts believe about this coin and it’s condition” along with a short description, date and grade.

It’s not meant to “guarantee” anything really but rather to get an expert opinion on the coin in terms of identification, dating, and condition.

The reason it needs to be slabbed is so that the expert opinion stays with the coin that the opinion was given to.

If it was just a certificate someone could easily pass off inferior coins of the same type as a higher grade. Like buying a VF denarius and selling it with an XF certificate given to a different coin of the same type.

The slab keeps all the information about the coin together with the coin.

 

Well, Yeah, but, relative to a COA, or another slabbing firm, I have to wonder whether all of what you said about NGC, relatively nuanced as it is, is really about anything beyond what you get from an unslabbed coin from a dealer who reliably knows what he's looking at. As in, whose experts, and what level of expertise, are actually involved? Since we're already talking about "expert opinion," details like that assume an especially pertinent level of significance.
In this context, I especially like what @DonnaML has said recently, regarding provenance. To her point, in a best case, this can substantively help to confirm something as basic as mere authenticity. If I'm looking at someone's "expert opinion," I'm going to want to know something about who that expert is. In the absence of that, the main thing a slab is going to tell me is that the dealer wanted to impose an otherwise irrelevant markup on the coin.
BTW, your Vespasian denarius is a Magnificent convergence of toning and detail. If it was mine, I'd crack it in a New York heartbeat.

 

Well the thing is NGC has a reputation to protect. If they were making a lot of big mistakes people would no longer trust their experts and would stop using them.

Now sure there may be the rare coin dealer who might have a passion and expertise in ancients but I think that’s a pretty rare thing.

Most coin dealers where I live mostly or only sell US coins and couldn’t tell you the difference between a denarius and a drachma.

 

The NGC ancients experts are David Vagi and Barry Murphy. Their expertise is unimpeachable. Of course they're not perfect. Nobody is.

(Corrected.)