Value Impact of Coin Cleaning

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by mwhistle, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Phil Ham

    Phil Ham Hamster

    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest

    to hide this ad.
  3. thetruth

    thetruth Junior Member

    :hail:happy holidays to all!!

    Im a new guy here and i think this is a extremly informative website, cudos to everyone who contributes.

    that said this is a great topic and i want to thank everyone who has responded....

    i have a 2 questions regarding this topic.

    1) i have some half dollars that have unattractive toneing, iwould like to have them certified. If send them to a tpg to get graded will they "dip" them to remove the toning and then grade them?

    2) i had recently sent some coins in to be certified by ngc. the grade posted on the website said ms, there was no number and the details said cleaned or improper cleaning. does this that the coins are mint state, in other words they would be a minimum grade of ms 60?

    and just to follow up if i sent the coins that ngc claims to be cleaned to another top tier grading service (pcgs or anacs) what are the chances that that grading company would agree with their determination?

    i would really appreciate help on this topic

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Usually - no they would not dip them, they would grade them as is. That said, there have been reports that some coins were first dipped and then graded.

    No, it means that the coins have MS details but that they were harshly cleaned. This means the coins are ungradeable.

    About 99.99% of the time they will agree.
  5. Stumpgrinder

    Stumpgrinder New Member

    How much would a 1909 s VDB graded by NCGS as Genuine AU details (92-cleaned) be worth? Since it's a genuine S VDB, I would think it would still be a desirable coin.
    Thanks for any help!
  6. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Not necessarily would it still be desirable, collectible yes, but maybe not desirable. It would depend on the cleaning and how the coin looks. I did notice that PCGS AU details coin went for about 800 or so on heritage. It really depends on how the coin looks and the type of cleaning on what it might bring.
    BadThad likes this.
  7. Stumpgrinder

    Stumpgrinder New Member

    Thanks for your quick answer!
  8. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    Interesting to know how the guy made out with the 55 ddo. Actually I've found that NCS work has gone downhill, I would only use them for copper spot removal on gold.
  9. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

    I really enjoy this topic because I have been restoring coins since 1999 with many amazing results. In fact five of them sold through HA for far more than a thousand dollars each. My background is in precious metals and antique (metal) restoration and preservation. I do not use any chemicals, abrasives, brushes nor do I use anything that would alter the properties of the metal (i.e.electrolysis). I took an apprenticeship program at the age of 18 while working for an antiques auction house and gained the respect of many dealers and collectors of the years. I learned the the technique of Turkish Brass Polishing a technique that is still used to this day by many fine brass,gold, and silver producers. This technique requires three stages of polishing under a stereo microscope and as of 2017 bio-metrics scanning. I myself have only recently started collecting coins on a large scale and never really cared for error coins or type coins. For me I wouldn't pay $1000 for a piece of jewelry that has errors so why would I put that towards a coin that is erroneous but his to his own, right? I am pretty sure what I am about to say is going to fuel a fire that may never be snuffed because I have a little secret that many people have never considered. HUMAN SECRETION AND DIRT HIDES SO MUCH. Yes sweat, blood, dead skin, and dirt can hide many flaws that could otherwise reduce a coins value to face value. When it comes to toning this too is a move away from the nature aging process of metal. Toning only happens through a chemical/physical reaction to a metals exposure whether it be oxygen or gasoline. The only actual natural toning is from atmospheric exposure and each form of metal should react fairly similar in similar situations. The most common damage any metal can be subjected to is oxidation. I could go in to depth with this process but to shorten it each metal when subject to oxidation will always return to its raw elemental color over time in a semi-even fashion. So take this as you will and please do not reply with your reasoning why your coin should be worth more than a flawless coin because ANY DAMAGE IS DAMAGE whether its from careless cleaning, unnatural coloration or human excretion, it is all the same. The coin market is unlike any other market for example would you pay $50,000.00 for a new car that had errors or was covered in human excretion, probably not but people are more than ready to drop that much on a molested coin any day of the week.
  10. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

  11. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Don't even run it under water. No cleaning of any type.
  12. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

    Especially zinc clad coins. Water and zinc have a fast response to each other, and it's not pretty.
  13. anchorsaweigh

    anchorsaweigh Member

    Well, there's cleaning, and then there's conserving. Generally speaking, new collectors that are on a strict budget enjoy cleaned coins (I don't classify polished as cleaned; they're in a category of their own). I remember a major dealer saying cleaned coins are not worth collecting. He would advocate buying an F-VF over a lightly cleaned coin in a details holder. I disagree. The beauty of this hobby is that there is something for everyone. Now, unless it is an extremely tough coin or considerably rare variety, you shouldn't expect to sell to a dealer for a whole lot. So, you're market will be other new collectors starting out right where you did. Never let a little schmutz stop you from buying a coin.

    Here's my example:

    Fire damaged as purchased on eBay:

    1927 $2.5 Indian Obv As Purchased.jpg.jpg
    1927 $2.5 Indian Rev As Purchased.jpg.jpg
    And after days of toil in the laborrrrrrrratory, here it is now...


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
    TypeCoin971793 likes this.
  14. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

    That is a magnificent coin, carbon binding usually doesn't cause any further damage to the coin unless it has petroleum based carbon from plastic holder or tape. I don't really see that in the picture so UV Light could possibly release some of that. No real restoration needed. Here is a somewhat explanation of what I am talking about. They make it sound more difficult than it really is.
  15. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

    I'm n
    I am not giving advise I'm just saying the secret is in the article.
  16. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Yes, send it to a TPG to clean it. The idea behind that is, if they screw it up, they’ll overlook it, but if you screw it up... :)
  17. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    What are some of the ways to detect a cleaned coin? Buffed or whizzed I can usually tell. But otherwise? I know people used to use Tarn-X on silver coins but you could tell because the coin would be bright but the mint luster would be gone. Any advice?
  18. Owle

    Owle Junior Member

    Ahoy, Anchorsaweigh!!!! Nice job, and welcome!
  19. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I used to sell vinegar-dated buffalo nickels.

    I expected around 10-30% of the market value. For example, a 1918-D valued at $25 in G-4 would sell for about $5.

    Basically, the value drop is massive, especially if you're talking acid dating.
  20. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    That's basically the biggest tell, @manny9655, the disturbance of the mint luster. But this is the thing. Evaluate the coin for the degree of it. You should do the same with scratches. Then, adjust your bid or appraisal accordingly. In other words, don't see compromised luster or scratches and say, "cleaned," and therefore "worthless." Forget the abstract label. Keep your eye on the coin, and assess the value of it by what you see or don't see on it. There's my advice. FWIW...
    manny9655 likes this.
  21. Rodney Cole

    Rodney Cole I do not keep foreign coins.

    I sell a lot of placeholder coins "as I call them" that are nearly flawless. People still pay good for a pretty penny.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page