Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Jul 11, 2019.
Sorry you feel that way.
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I live closest to Penn State, so I'll use their average stats: over $17,000 per year for in-state students, and over $32,000 per year for out-of-state students. Maybe it's just me, but that seems like an expensive way to gain critical thinking skills, on a major that I bet a large percentage of graduates never get to work in. I wonder how long they critically think about their insane student loan over the years.
I would like to interject that I've learned by far the most about coins from CoinTalk, one of the bestest of online resources and full of great buddies. Hooray for us!! [group hug]
My feeling is that anything 'learned' expands your mind and is not a waste. It's an experience that some take for granted, but the learning experience serves the purpose of making one a better person in society as a whole. How many times have you guys corrected and enlightened some ignorant ignoramus regarding a certain subject or life endeavour? More than a few times I suspect.
You know what 'burns me? Some young person who can't make simple 'change' from a purchase that you've made without the assistance of an electronic device. Children who take a math test are allowed to use calculators instead of working out a problem on a piece of paper. Thinking it through instead of working out the problem and handing the answer to them. In some ways I think the educational system in this country is trying to 'dumb' people/children down.
Ever see the movie 'Idiocracy'?That's the future for people who don't educate themselves in some sphere or influence. You guys who took courses, even though they don't relate to your current 'job' are much more worldly and intelligent for the education you've received. And it will serve you well in life, because any education is not wasted.......IMHO
Has anyone here actually learned an advanced discipline on their own and then interacted with professionally trained people in that discipline? That is a large part of my career and I can tell you it’s a whacky experience. The perspective you get is quite different from your colleagues. There is lot to be said for a guided course of study, both in learning what you need to learn and in learning how to go about thinking about problems. I can make unusual insights one moment only to be blindsided by something rudimentary the next, because I didn’t have some 2nd year course under my belt.
In a way law is like that, you have to learn it on your own or with the guidance and good graces of older attorneys. Almost nothing you learned in law school has any practicality and application to the real world. So when you graduate you come to the realization that you have been fed mostly obsolete concepts of law that no longer apply or almost never come up in the real world, and have little practical knowledge whatsoever about your profession. Most graduates are able to recite and understand many concepts of law that have become obsolete in their state more than 50 or 60 years prior but can't file a basic motion, or know how to properly draft a complaint, or know how to depose, examine, cross examine, and impeach witnesses. Pretty sad stuff.
Pretty much every attorney ends up having to teach themselves or learn little bits of scraps here and there from other attorneys, and put it all together. Heck, that still happens to older attorneys moving into an area of law they never practiced before. I'm running circles around an attorney that's 20 years older than me. But he is recently trying to get into family law while I've been doing the same for nearly a decade. He's learning from the scraps of knowledge I'm giving him every time I pull out another motion and argue a concept he's never heard. Next time around he won't be as easy to face because now he will have self-taught himself from the education I've indirectly given him in court, and will have a better understanding of what works and doesn't work, and when to back off and when to go for the jugular and draw blood.
We are so badly off topic that here's a coin to make it all better.
That’s on you, not the degree.
It has been said in this thread before but I want to restate - college is not vocational school. I believe it was never intended to be. I suspect sometime after World War II it became a popular myth that you had to go to college to get a good job.
After spending about 2 decades in my chosen career, surrounded and often being chosen to lead others with MFAs, MBAs, PhDs, etc on projects, and presenting at international conferences in my field, I've been slowly chipping away at courses towards completing my undergrad for the past 4 years (only about 1 year to go!) after initially attending only 1 year at a tech school to get the basics under my belt and then self taught through my work. It has given me the ability to see new ways of doing things that others were shown, how to solve problems and seek out answers, challenge how things are done, and ask what would be thought of as the "stupid" noob questions.
Early in my career, there was a quote by Robert Ingersoll that I enjoyed, "Colleges and universities polish pebbles and dim diamonds."
I can't (and shouldn't) say that now that I've worked in the higher ed space for over 12 years now lol I don't wholeheartedly believe that anymore. The diamonds need to know what to do with the education they are receiving, so they start sharp. One is responsible for how they receive and assimilate the knowledge, being judicious in what they accept. I actually feel thankful for the opportunity to go back to college in my late 30s, as I am more discerning and critical about the content and how it fits with my current and future life work and goals.
The only concern I have about kindle or any other digital book is that they can always be altered and no trace Left Behind..... remember history is a set of lies agreed upon.
What I have seen is those who went to college for a specific degree graduated and then didn't make the effort to find where they could apply that degree. And then there are those who are working at a job different than what their degree is in who don't realize that maybe they got the job simply because they do have a degree. Getting that piece of paper shows that you are able to do the work of getting it that shows your character, your commitment to doing something and willing to spend money getting it done. Sitting around reading books or watching online college courses that don't give you anything simply means you are competent in sitting around reading books and watching videos. Even going to vocational school gives you something beyond a high school diploma.
There was a time when you could get by with a high school diploma and an extensive knowledge of computers. Now that isn't even possible due to the complexity. I should have taken that job as systems analyst when it was offered to me, but without having a degree, among other things, I felt inadequate to take it. I was happy just being in operations. I was a glorified button pusher!
I saw several posts about the prohibitive costs of studies without direkt revenue. Keep in mind that university fees in the US are the exception in the world and not the rule. For example: The university fee for the university of Vienna is 383,56 Euro per semester. https://slw.univie.ac.at/studieren/studienbeitrag/hoehe-euewrch-buergerinnen/
Yes. I am friends with a couple of Italian computer scientists who got the Ph.D. degree equivalent without paying for tuition. In the U.S. of course it is a different story.
Um. Well, that's fantasy fiction, not history. Two very different things. Daniken was proven to have plagiarized much of what is in Chariots of the Gods directly from H.P. Lovecraft.
As to the OP, while I do agree that a 'useless' degree does and can exist, in most cases careers are on the job trained anyway. In many cases a potential employer just wants to see that you did get some sort of degree at all. I don't think I know anyone who is currently employed in the field of their degree specialty.
I’ll be thrilled if either of my kids want to pursue a degree in numismatics in Vienna.
Let us distinguish between 2 words: training and education. Getting a diploma to get a job is not education it is training. Training assumes that there is a finite set of tasks one needs to master in order to perform a task, education does not make this assumption at all. There is nothing at all wrong with training, it is necessary and valuable, but do not confuse this with education. Education is a process not an end goal. Socrates reportedly said "The only thing I know is I know nothing". Socrates did not supply answers to questions he responded with questions instead. Education teaches us to ask questions. Think of Einstein who asked some of the most brilliant questions in modern history. These include: What would it be like to ride a beam of light, or how would it feel to sit on a proton. Asking these questions hinted at a radically different view of the universe. As a late friend of mine once said "Research is not about finding answers, it is about finding better questions". Training does not teach us to question, education does.
Those of you with some Latin should recognize the word Education. It contains 2 roots educare-to train or to mold and educere to draw out or lead out. For me education is about educere. Another way to think of it is by considering this quotation from Yeats "Education is not the filling of a pail, it is the lighting of a fire". There is nothing wrong with getting a degree in order to get a job, but there are other reasons to pursue a degree. One of these is to, as Joseph Campbell said, "Follow your bliss". In other words there is more to life than a job. For me education has always been about chasing what makes me passionate.
Not quite. The tuition fee only applies if you need "too many" semesters:
"As a EU/EEA/CH citizen you don't have to pay the tuition fee during the minimum duration of your degree programme plus two semesters of tolerance. You only have to pay the Students' Union fee (20.20 Euro). If your study duration exceeds the two extra semesters, you have to pay the tuition fee (363.36 Euro) additionally to the Students' Union fee (total sum of 383.56 Euro)." https://slw.univie.ac.at/en/studying/tuition-fee/amount-eueeach-citizens/
I’m in the military and finishing my MA in Peace Studies and International Relations. Concur 100% with @Orfew and having your perceptions challenged. The utility of my degree is yet to be determined, but never have I had so many of my perceptions challenged in such a short period of time.
I'd say it's on me for choosing to specialize in Buddhist art history.
However, it's on the degree for being completely irrelevant and useless.
It's certainly my fault for making poor decisions, but there's not much to be done about the fact that there's literally (probably) a dozen people making a living off Buddhist studies in this country.
A question I get asked at every interview is "why are you applying here if you have
A) a master's degree in general
B) a master's degree in Asian Studies
I feel like if the degree field actually didn't matter then they wouldn't be so interested in why I want to work at Enterprise (for example) if I studied Asian Studies, you know?
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