US mint proof vs. PR70

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by cowseatmaize, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. cowseatmaize

    cowseatmaize New Member

    Hi, I ran across a box proof 1982s Washington half this morning and was dumbfounded by price variation on the bay. Original boxed about $10. Opened and repackaged by PCGS PR69DCAM $25 and PR70DCAM over $100. Does this mean it's luck of the draw when buying from the mint or does the slight movement in the plastic capsule degrade it. A third maybe is could it be just how the grader feels at the moment. I figure anything that close to perfect were newly opened mint proofs and graded. I did read somewhere that virtually all coins after 1977 were deep cameo but I don't remember where. I think it was the PCGS site. My interest was peaked by reading a thread from over a year ago titled "MS/PR69 OR MS/PR70~Can you tell the difference?" Any new or thoughts I have missed in my casual browsing? It really sounds like people just want the PCGS name. Thanks, Eric
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    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If what you are asking is - what is the lieklihood of getting a PF70 DCAM on a Washington commem ? My guess would be it's about 1 out of 10,000. And yes, it is the luck of the draw, or rather it was when the coins were sold.

    Today however, finding a PF70 DCAM in original packaging - let's just say you have a better chance of winning the lottery.
  4. Aslanmia

    Aslanmia Active Member

    In my opinion, it's all about the PCGS name and the cost of getting coins encapsulated.

    When you buy a raw coin on the Bay it's like gambling... you really don't know what you have until you get it, if it's been altered, or if it's a fake. People bid accordingly.

    With graded coins, even though they can be faked, for all intents and purposes you're guaranteed that the coin is what is says it is so people will bid higher and even factor in the cost of the grading itself into their bid.
  5. cowseatmaize

    cowseatmaize New Member

    Interesting? So what you get from the Mint for $15 or whatever is a coin that someone pulls out of a big bin that's been bumped into other coins. The person doing that may or may not be wearing gloves so it could still tarnish. All your really buying is the proof that it hasn't been circulated. Oh and a plastic capsule and nifty box.

    It sounds like your just as likely to get a 69 or 70 from a new roll. and then get it graded. Not that I'd pay for the chance. My moms B-day present in '82 would be worth more if she got that $10 roll instead, especially with silver as it is now.

    I better hurry up and have kids to leave this to. Maybe when they're 50 this will be worth something. They're probably all being melted as we speak so they may become rare (the coins, not the kids).

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes and no. First of all these coins were never placed in rolls when they were new, not by the mint anyway. They were all sold individually or in 2 coins sets containing 1 Unc and 1 Proof. And they never went into hoppers the way business strike coins do, they were removed 1 at a time, by hand, from the presses.

    As for the grade of the coin when it came right from the press it was much more likely to be a 67 or 68 (or even lower) than a 69 or 70. Most of these coins grade lower than 69 whether Proof or Unc.

    And yes, when you bought them direct from the mint or later from a dealer but in original mint packaging, it was still a crapshoot as to what the grade would be. But you could pretty much count on it being lower than 69.
  7. cowseatmaize

    cowseatmaize New Member

    That's interesting, thanks
    It sounds like at this point in time, from a collector or inverter point, your better off buying a graded coin shortly after release than buying the proof coin. Even if it cost a bit more it has more likelihood of getting your investment back. In this case anyway I don't see it getting worth more than she paid for it. Not unless silver hits $60 or most of the others get melted down.
  8. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP

    Yes, for the most part you are better off having graded coins because professionals that grade coins on a daily basis have reviewed it, graded it and encapsulated it. For the sake of re-sale value anyway. With loose coins, you never know what you're going to get unless the picture was excellent. Which is rare.

    You should know that proof coins are not handled as carelessly as ones you end up getting in your pocket change. They aren't thrown around or grabbed out of a bag. They are produced with care and handled with gloves. All the proofs that come out of the mint today are not touched by bare hands. Theoretically, they all have a shot at getting a PF70 but the process itself causes mint made flaws the prevent most from achieving this. All it takes is a weaker strike. A little nick in the rim. A little scuff or mark somewhere on the coin and it's a PF69.

    People pay (often times overpay) for the PF70 because it is rare for a coin to be completely absent of any minor defect. Now, keep in mind, this doesn't go down to the molecular level as some people want to argue. But to the human eye and under 5x magnification, there should not be a defect on a 70.

    MS commemoratives are handled the same way so there are MS70s out there too. The only way this can be achieved is by careful handling at the mint. Sometimes you will run across a 69 and wonder why it wasn't given a 70 though. Most of the time I can find the flaw. But every now and then you run across one that you can't pick out the flaw that made it a 69.
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