US cent

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by galba68, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    That just goes to show that I've lost any inhibition I might once have had about being proven wrong. ;) I have no doubt that @Paddy54's examined a lot more of these than I have; maybe those features I called out are just characteristic of the issue.

    But when I see those sinking devices on (say) a Barber quarter or half, I drop it like a hot potato. (I also see them on a majority of the 1804 dollars that new posters show us!)
     
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  3. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    I am not CT's certified newest grader by any means, but what I am is someone unlike you.....who has been collecting over 50 years,and a member here on this forum for over the last 10 years!
    Unlike you a Johnny come lately who has plucked a lot of nerves amoung the long term members here.

    You know for the last 10 plus years I've seen people like your self show up...post dribble for a short time ,and then disappear after the membership realizes that you don't know Jack.....or his brother give a.....!
    You my think you have an audience here, and you do.....and they are laughing! At you!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  4. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    @-jeffB
    Jeff I do understand your concerns over the op specimen .
    True that it is a rare date 5000 minted.
    It has signs of wear....and all of the above is being decieded on a photo.
    Given the areas in question which are common on small coins ,not having it in hand to make a call that is determined by more than an image....what my eye tells me that it is a legit coin that from the devices looks to have been dipped.
    But the color of this coin does not concern me. Remember also that 1865 was the first use of nickel copper alloys. It proved to be much harder to strike thus increased tonnage used and dies breaking at a high rate.
    It is estimated 1865 that a die wouldn't last past 10k strikes minting a shield nickel,much different than striking in gold silver or copper.
    What does concern me though is a Johnny come lately who should crawl back under the rock it came ,and troll another forum.

    Jeff if time allows me later today I'll post some images of denticals like you're seeing on this coin. As they range from rounded, to square to fused together.
    Lastly we need to remember this is numismatics where stranger things then this have been discovered.
    As a collector of the 3 cent nickel I can assure you tnat this series is as tough to complete as mintages did indeed drop off due to less demand.
    Also remember that in 1865 there was a coin shortage. People hoarded hard money.
    Also durring that time peroid the 3 cent coin or a 5. Cent coin were like a $10 bill durring the 70's or a $20 durring the 80's
    These little coins had a lot of buying power.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  5. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    @-jeffB
    Again notice looking around the rim how the denticals change shape.
    Over the years ive found that the mashing together of the teeth are more likely found at 12,3,6,and 9 positions but not always guessing on how the blank was laying in the coining chamber causing rotation of a side.
    I do understand your concerns on Barber quarters.as they are not a series I am well acquainted with and would by all means research my purchases.
    1871 III TDR.jpg 1875 III MPD 301.jpg
     
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  6. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Here's a perfect example of a cap bust half dime that the denticals are full on its reverse and hard to be found on its obv. 19250-1.jpg
     
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  7. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    You will see this even on proofs.
    16.jpg
     
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  8. galba68

    galba68 Well-Known Member

    Paddy54, thank you very much for your texts..they are very really helpful , especially for me, who has no experience with US coins..Thank you guys for your help..Here are better photos..
    upload_2019-8-14_17-26-48.jpeg
    upload_2019-8-14_17-27-10.jpeg
     
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Again, I'll emphasize that I'm not worried about the denticles. My one and only uncirculated example has such funky denticles on the back that I was concerned about its authenticity, but I found just what you say -- funky denticles are really common in this issue.

    But look at the ribbon on the OP's photos, and see how it disappears into the field at low points. Compare it to the ribbon on the two examples you posted. Wear or a weak strike would show up on the high points, not the low ones. The only place I expect to see disappearing low-point detail is on counterfeits.

    I'm no specialist in the series, and if you think this coin is genuine, I'm willing to at least entertain the notion. It's certainly possible that there are a few legitimate specimens out there, even overseas, in the hands of people who will swap them away for a song. But I'm betting that they're vastly outnumbered by fakes, and I'm predisposed to distrust them until I'm proven wrong. The details on this coin make me more, not less, suspicious.
     
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  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    It is absolutely genuine and probably original. It would likely grade XF-40
     
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  11. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    I know of at least one 1793 Chain Cent pulled from a junk bin in England. As well as a VF+ 1799 Dollar found in a group of misc contemporary crowns. I’ve learned to treat everything with an open mind and never let odds factor into the equation.
     
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  12. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Or on coins where the die has been overpolished which is not unusual on these coins.

    Some of the weak areals in the hair bother me some but if it isreal you are estimating the value too low, closer to $500. I paid $475 for my VF-20 and was happy to get it.
     
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  13. galba68

    galba68 Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much guys for different opinions..I was talking to a friend of mine whith whom I was exchanging coin and we agreed if I sold the coin we would split the amount..
     
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  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Bingo. That's what I was forgetting. That absolutely can cause the loss of low-relief detail like this.

    If that were the case, though, I'd expect to see other examples from the same date showing the same feature. Are they out there? I started to look for images of examples, but got sidetracked...
     
  15. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    @-jeffB
    My opion is from experence as well knowing this series, however would I buy this coin from an image no!
    If this was a Morgan to quote a good very knowable member here said it be a 6 figular coin in "Good" heading to 7 figulars depending on grade.
    Now in hand I be a buyer ,or if I had a guaranteed return on approval of said coin.
    And will add this to all the eyes in here to see...I have been fooled twice on in hand purchases. Both gold coins ,both were that gold coins however fake. I know well over 50 dealers if I asked them each if they ever made a bad purchase and they said no....I wouldn't be dealing with them.....one close friend had a HOT coin purchased from another close dealer who purchased it out of state.
    He had to wait through the entire process to see how much he loose totally.

    If the story of the op is true I'm guessing as we don't know the value of the items he traded was......I believe he did well ,advise to get it graded, especially if you're going to flip.....and let us all know how you did....you're very welcome ....wishing you the best of luck . Paddy
     
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  16. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Beautiful coin Larry it is amazing how these coins tone.more so blue,green golden hues. This is a series that I wished it ran longer.simple yet eye catching another Longacre masterpiece.
     
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  17. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    How long ago did you buy it Conder101? And to be honest at first gave it a 300/400 value, but it seems that the demand isn't strong enough....to hold a 500 dollar price.
    Like the price and mintage difference between an 95 S Morgan and a 93 O .
    I would love to believe my col.ection of Nickel 3 cent pieces was increasing in value......but non the less enjoy the series and the varieties it offers.
     
  18. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Here's another thought on this series.....how many strikes did the mint get on a die pair? Again very hard medal unlike and unforgiving compared to silver.
    Is there a book on this series either in or out of print?
    I have a sweet guide on silver pieces....but would love to know about the die marriages.
     
  19. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    I know, I can tell.

    And you actually have to give me your resume for this forum. Now that's impressive and shows your insecurities at the same time.
    laughing-my-ass-off-smiley-emoticon.gif

    You're the only one I hear whining. I owe you an apology. I knew you were sensitive but your actually quit emotional aren't you?

    Do yourself a big favor patsy (I mean paddy), don't comment on my threads or posts and you and I will get along just fine!

    I got a better idea there smart boy! Maybe I'll take a survey to see who wants me to stick around here or just leave! I've got no problem with that.

    In the meantime, here's one for you.....

    image002-ccfopt 9.42.41 PM copy.jpg
     
  20. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    I love watching a fool dig his hole deeper!
     
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  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    About 6 years or so ago

    Yes they did have the same problem with short die life on these that they did with the Shield nickels. Die life seemed to be a little better at around 50,000 coins per die pair.
    There are two books that I know of on the series The Authoritative Reference on Three Cent Nickels by Kevin Flynn (available on Amazon.com around $38) And a much more definitive The Ultimate Guide to U. S. Three Cent Nickels 1868 - 1889 by Allen Gifford. Only 500 copies were printed and it is almost impossible to find a printed copy. But it is available for free download on Archive.org
    https://archive.org/details/guideusthreecent2003gifford/page/n2

    And there are still more varieties out there than are referenced in these books.
     
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