Unusual 'Heavy Bronze' ??

While browsing, I ran across this unusually heavy bronze of Licinius I. The coin does not appear at all extraordinary except in the coins weight and thickness. Not to mention that I seem unable to match it up in any accurate sense at all on Wildwinds---although the best match appears to be the Cyzicus mint and RIC 66. However, still the devices do not quite match.....

Although it seems to be about 21 mm, a typical size, the weight is 7.2 grams or about 3 grams higher than what seems 'normal'. Has anyone run across any like this before??

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

3 grams seems like a very excessive difference. I would be very concerned for the authenticity of this coin. Good luck...maybe someone here can provide a reassuring answer.

 

Just a common Follis. Nothing unusual.

 

There is one on ebay which is 5.6g.

 

The mints had horrible quality control, I have seen Magnus Maximus AE'2s vary from 3.60 to 5.0 grams!
Nice coin though.

 

How do you know it's Cyzicus mint? I can't make anything out in exergue. Cyzicus mint was using MKV during this period - can you make out MKV? At any rate, the folles of this period range widely from 4 to 7g.

Edit: also, the GENIO AVGVSTI CMH types are not all that common.

 

WOW, then that is a horrible example of 'quality control' if they can vary from 3.6 to 7.2 grams.

JA, I was just comparing the types and seem to fall into the Cyzicus mint as the most similar----since that coin exhibits no visible mint-mark.

I'm still a bit surprised they vary in weight to that degree.

BTW I haven't purchased it, I was just wondering about it.

 

The varying weights had more to do with inflation than quality control - Roman imperial coinage was constantly shrinking. When coins could reasonably get no smaller, there would be a reform, they would get big, and then they would again start shrinking.

RIC does not record a coin from Cyzicus with those particular field marks for Licinius. One could go through all of volumes VI and VII and see which mints used a dot in the left and delta in the right, thereby narrowing it down. I'm just too damn lazy to do it at the moment.

 

I had no idea that the weight varies so much with these coins. But that's why I love this forum, not a day goes by that I don't learn something new.

 

I meant Large Follis in general are common.

 

Amen to that Sallent!!!

From what little I could tell from WildWinds, the break in the GENIOAV GVSTI is also a bit scarce---as it seems GENIO AVGUSTI is more common.

Of course, I could be mistaken.

 

go here http://www.catbikes.ch/coinstuff/coins-ric.htm scroll down and download the GENIO exel file and try and match it there...

 

RIC 95 page 593 is a good match but for Maximinus II with other dot placements given for Licinius so it is quite possibly something previously overlooked. My CMH is only 5.4g but has no dot so RIC 85 page 592. RIC gives the break for 85 as A-V but AV-G as on both our coins for 95. Perhaps this coin fell in the middle of the change.

The question we all have to ask is whether a dot interests us or not. A Licinius specialist might love to see the coin. I certainly buy it as a nice coin but I would not pay extra for the dot.

 

Interesting posts.

I threw a modest bid of $10.00 for it with a maximum of $20.00 simply because it's 'nice', but mostly because it is so 'heavy'....all the other specifics (dot, legend break etc) are simply an added interest or 'bonus' for me.

Thanks for all the comments and observations!!

 

If you win the coin, I'll be curious to see if you can make anything out in exergue. If it is in fact Cyzicus, it's an unlisted variety for Licinius.

 

Another super addition, MikeyZ (man, you are scooping-up some winners lately, eh?)

Licinius I, Æ Follis
A.D. 308-324
Heraclea A.D. 313
Diameter: 20 mm
Weight: 3.29 grams
Obverse: IMP C VAL LICIN LICINIVS P F AVG, laureate head of Licinius I right
Reverese: IOVI CONSER-VATORI AVGG, Jupiter standing facing, head left, holding Victory on globe, and scepter; at feet to left, eagle standing left, head right, holding wreath in beak; Δ//SMHT
Reference: RIC 73



... I always smile when I see this big headed coin ($44 delivered)

 

I like these big fat bronze coins, did you buy it Mikey??

 

Still pending on bid, Eng, but I plan to up my max slightly since it appeals to me more and more as I keep thinking about it.

 

Mikey-Z => below are a couple of links to a bunch of Licinius I examples ... if you scroll through 'em, they seem to vary a lot in diameter and weight

https://cngcoins.com/Search.aspx?PAGE_NUM=&PAGE=1&TABS_TYPE=1&CONTAINER_TYPE_ID=2&IS_ADVANCED=1&ITEM_DESC=Licinius I, Æ Follis&ITEM_IS_SOLD=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2=1


http://www.ancientimports.com/cgi-bin/category.pl?id=365&cpp=24&view=twocolumn

 

Thanks, Steve---They do vary quite a bit but I'm still surprised they can jump up to over 7 grams...It seems that was a 'rare' occurrence and as Doug mentions, the coin on the OP that may have gone unnoticed over the course of time and an 'unpublished variety' for that scarce type----We'll see.

Anyway, it's a nice bulky dude for the price.