Unusual bust types

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    One thing to like about later Roman coins is the variety of bust types not found on issues of the first and second centuries. The second coin below has a very unusual bust type.

    Many bust types can be found on coins of Constantine and his sons. One that stands out is common on coins of Constantine II:

    ConstantineIIBEATATRANQiotachi.jpg
    19-18 mm. 2.05 grams.
    RIC VII Ticinum 121 "319-320"
    Overall, a bust left holding Victory on a globe is uncommon, but for Constantine II (and only Constantine II) it is common. This particular example is special for having the "Iota chi" symbol to the left of the banner with "VOT/XX" on it. That symbol, with its bump at the top, has been sometimes thought to be a "chi-rho" for Christ, but in spite of older articles with line-drawings of it clearly showing a chi-rho with the P having an open loop like it should at the top, those are just line-drawings, not photographs, and it does not really seem to exist as a chi-rho--this is as close as it gets. (If you have an example that really shows a rho, we would like to see it.) So I call it an "Iota-Chi" (I X, superimposed), which might, just might, have a connection to Christ.

    But I digress. The point of this post is the next coin obtained last month:

    ConstantineIIBEATATRANQbustwGlobe.jpg

    Again, it is Constantine II. Again the bust is left. Again, he is holding a globe, but this time without Victory on it. Globes without Victory turn out to be very rare. RIC VII Lugdunum (Lyons) has this type as #196, "r4", with only two other globe-only varieties at Lugdunum, both for Constantine II and both "r5" (only 1 of each known that the time). A search on vcoins under "Constantine II globe" brings up 157 items (not all Constantine II), none of which have this bust.

    20-18 mm. 2.49 grams.
    BEATA TRANQVILLITAS around altar with globe on VO/TIS/XX on it, C to left, R to right, PLG in exergue.

    Show us an unusual bust type.
     
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Probus is renowned for hois bust varieties. I no longer own this one. It is by far the most expensive Probus I have ever or will ever own.

    Probus
    Obv:– IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust left in elaborate cuirass decorated with Medusa medallion & holding Vitoriola (Victory on globe, facing left, holding wreath) in right hand, palm up
    Rev:– VIRTVS AVG, Soldier standing left, holding Victory and spear and leaning on shield
    Minted in Ticinum(QXXT) Emission 2 Officina 4. A.D. 276
    Reference:– Cohen unlisted. RIC 435 var. (This bust type not listed in RIC or Cohen)
    Only known from two other coins: a die match is illustrated in Bastien's Buste Monetaire... pl. 126 number 11 , and a different die with different obverse legend in the Philippe Gysen collection

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Constantius Gallus.jpg
    CONSTANTIUS GALLUSCentenionalis
    OBVERSE: D N FL CL CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES, Bare-headed, draped and cuirassed bust right
    REVERSE: FEL TEMP REPARATIO, Helmeted soldier to left, shield on left arm, spearing fallen horseman; shield on ground at right. Horseman turns to face soldier and raises right arm, dot SMKA in ex.
    Struck at Cyzicus 351-354 AD
    5.40 g, 23.9 mm
    RIC-VIII, 97
    Constantine I 27.jpg
    CONSTANTINE I
    AE2 Follis
    OBVERSE: CONSTANTINVS P F AVG, laureate head right
    REVERSE: IOVI CONSERVATORI, Jupiter standing left, holding globe & sceptre, wreath left, E right, dot SM dot TS dot in ex.
    Struck at Thessalonica 312-313 AD
    5.5g, 26mm
    RIC VI 50b
    Constantine II 23.jpg
    CONSTANTINE II
    AE Follis
    OBVERSE: D N FL CL CONSTANTINVS NOB C, laureate cuirassed bust right
    REVERSE: IOVI CONSERVATORI, Jupiter standing left with Victory on globe & eagle-tipped sceptre, eagle & captive at feet, X over II Μ right, SMHA in ex.
    Struck at Heraclea 330-335 AD
    3.24g, 20mm
    RIC VII 55
     
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  5. ro1974

    ro1974 Well-Known Member

    Maxiamanus herculus _DSC4777.JPG _DSC4779.JPG
     
  6. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    This coin of Valens shows clearly that the symbol Chi-Rho has a Rho (P) and not an Iota ( I ). Am I right ?

    ValsChi R                      RIC 9-16b.jpg ValsChiRho.jpg
     
  7. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Of course you are right. That chi-rho symbol on your coin of Valens is clear. The question was if the OP type of Constantine II ever comes with a chi-rho. Many later emperors do, but it is not clear that Constantine II does on this type.
     
  8. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    I see .. I'll try to check if I have any relevant coin of that sort ( Const II ) .
     
  9. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    I think both examples of Licinius II qualify:


    859397996_tp.jpg 859398013_tp.jpg licinius II jupiter captive.jpg
     
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  10. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    Do these Constantine's count?

    normal_Clipboard12~2.jpg

    Clipboardr4.jpg
     
  11. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    What is unusual about the busts?
     
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  12. ancientone

    ancientone Well-Known Member

    Not much on the Rome mint(double chin?) but the Antioch one looks like a zombie.
     
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  13. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  14. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    I chose these 2 busts of Honorius and Constantius II that, I believe, are unusual.

    Honorius Ric  X-  409.jpg Honoriu R ball         Anoth Emp.jpg Cost II Epsilon          Cohen 104.jpg Cost IICyz  Ric- 7     85.jpg
     
  15. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Here is a bust type which is very unusual on coins of Claudius II (268-270):
    ClaudiusIIVIRTVSAVG.jpg
    Helmeted bust left, with spear and shield.
    19-18 mm. 2.78 grams.
    IMP CLAVDIVS AVG
    VIRTVS AVG, Virtus standing resting right on shield and holding vertical spear
    MER-RIC V.I temp 723 (site home: http://www.ric.mom.fr/en/home )
    Search page:
    http://www.ric.mom.fr/en/search/adv...on=&Note=&Reference=&page=1&mod=result&hpp=20

    None with the helmeted head on vcoins among 797 hits on a search for "Claudius II"
    None in The Cunetio Treasure among 2114 coins of Claudius II.

    Helmets are very common on coins of Probus, only a few years later, but not under Claudius II.
     
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  16. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    lr075.jpg Constantine I
    Thessalonica mint
    319 AD
    AE Follis
    Obvs: CONSTANTINVS AVG, Bust left cuir. spear across right shoulder.
    Revs: VICTORIA AVGG NN, Victory advancing left, holding wreath and palm branch. TSΔ
    18mm, 2.6g
     
  17. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    I have two busts of Julian II that appear to have the same characteristics (i.e.facial features - individually) but look like two different people..

    Julian II 360-63 AD Double Maiorina RIC VIII Antioch 216

    (8) Julian II 360-63 AD Double Maiorina RIC VIII Antioch 216.jpg JULIAN II RIC VIII Siscia 421var.
    (7) JULIAN II RIC VIII Siscia 421var.jpg
     
  18. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    One of the best Julian II Nulls I've seen!
     
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  19. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    @Bing
    Thank-you for your kinfd comment, Bing, but you might have to educate a student on the term "Julian II Nulls", please?
     
  20. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Old and big fingers. That was suppose to read "Bulls"
     
  21. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I'll start with some Constantines and then move on to a couple of other emperors.

    Helmeted. Generally unusual, but common for this reverse type:
    [​IMG]

    High crested helmet:
    [​IMG]

    Helmeted, facing left (my avatar):
    [​IMG]

    High-crested helmet, left:
    [​IMG]

    Bare headed:
    [​IMG]

    Radiate bust:
    [​IMG]

    This one is described as "draped bust, left, holding globe, scepter and mappa," To me, it looks like he's holding an olive branch and a scepter. Perhaps the dot just above 6:00 is a globe?:
    [​IMG]

    Most of the above are unusual, but common for those particular reverse types.
    Here's my favorite Constantine bust - laurate, cuirassed bust, right, wearing Spock ears:
    [​IMG]

    and a close up of the Spock ears:
    [​IMG]

    Here's a couple of other favorites:
    Arcadius, with halo:
    [​IMG]

    Claudius II ("Gothicus"), radiate bust, facing left:
    [​IMG]

    Gallienus, radiate bust, left, with shield:
    [​IMG]

    Lastly, Theodosius II, 3/4 facing helmeted bust with shield, common on solidi, but less so on bronze:
    [​IMG]
     
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