Unofficial CoinTalk Dark Side “Coin” Grade Poll #5 1796 S-85 Large Cent

Like my previous posts I am looking for the TPG grade for this example AND whether it appears to be genuine or “authenticity challenged”. I would appreciate a brief explanation as to why it looks like either to you as well.

All responses and questions during the running of this post welcomed!

I have formatted the poll to allow 2 answers going forward and limited it to 2 days for active voting.

Today’s subject is the 1796 S-85, a rather scarce variety (R-5) early large cent and carries a premium in price; it is also a variety where higher graded examples are pretty rare. The EAC Condition Census tops out with 1 example graded XF-45 and goes down to F-15 for the top10 listed.


As a point of reference this one was purchased in late 2015 from a California Coin Shop through an internet listing; this was just after many of us became aware of the latest round of struck counterfeits hitting the marketplace…

 

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Ok if this is a counterfeit it’s a good one. It would fool me as I’m not a large cent expert. Though I have a decent knowledge of the series The only things that give me pause is the spot behind the ear which could be a genuine planchet flaw and the patch of bumps and roughness above one. I would likely be fooled by this as the color wear and surfaces look real to me from the pics. If this is fake and I suspect it may be by your posting it Jack I’m very interested in hearing the telltales thanks again for all your work on these

 

I’m guessing VF Details on the holder; either corrosion or environmental damage

 

The rims are completely wrong

 

How so?

 

The dentils just randomly stop. Then there’s a gap. Then there’s a thick solid rim.



Compare with a genuine one.

 

How does mine look compare to this example?

 

I just attributed that to strike issues

 

The rims still have issues from K9 to K12

 

The dentils on the genuine dies extended beyond the maximum predicted coin diameter to account for the variable flan width due to variable striking pressure. What is seen on the OP’s specimen could not have happened

 

Interesting to know thanks

 

OK, poll will be closed shortly so I am going to start with the question of authenticity.

This next image is of a similar example but severely holed; that example appears to have been expertly repaired in to the “Plugged” NGC example:


Common marks are indicated in “white”, unique to that example in red.



One other “tell” for this example is the re-engraved hair at the hole repair (image on the right is of a known genuine example).


Compare it to my OP example- these two are obviously different examples and both were for sale in two different venues prior to my purchase...

 

OK, the answers!

My OP example was graded VF Details- damaged. There were many who also saw it that way.



As far as authenticity, not so much; not only do the main sister marks match the probable source example but also match my 2nd one in the collection.



This raw example was worked on and “weathered” to make it look different but the main attribution points are still visible.



So another counterfeit good enough to be considered “genuine”…




Interest in this post was significantly down from the previous ones and may well be the last for the series- thanks to those who did participate!

 

There may be a significant number of common attributes between the proposed source coin and the counterfeit. What is your opinion ?

 

I'm a bit confused here. Was this a fake that fooled NGC?

 

Don't pull the plug. Many of us have been consumed by the FUN show this week!

 

Yes!

My CoinWeek article can be found at: https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/s...796-s-85-large-cent-1-page-attribution-guide/

 

Thanks for posting. I'm not really into copper, and I figure if these are getting past the TPGers I have no business commenting. But I believe keeping fakes in the forefront is one of the most valuable facets of these sites.

 

I have a couple of silver examples I could do in this format as well!

 

Quick guess. Top end of B missing. Just my 2 sense