Unofficial CoinTalk Dark Side “Coin” Grade Poll #4 1805 C-4 Half Cent

Jack, I love this exercise. It is teaching me a lot at the feet of the master and bringing the issue of counterfeits to front and center. Thanks again. If you're going to be at FUN, I hope to meet you at the CT meeting.

 

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It appears counterfeit by looking at the details on the strike.

 

I thought the first coin was a fake and the TPG gave it a straight grade. I called it a 40 if real. Thought that was what you were asking for. Next there are two other coins posted. Real second example and TPG MS example.
I'm too stupid to follow what is being said.
I'll just stay out of these threads.

 

No reason to stay out; I'm just trying to continue to develop the "story" of these. The second example is one of the three in my collection including the OP example. The comparison image was just to show the details of mine versus a known example of the variety.

 

So, is the subject coin a fake on not? I can't decide with my limited knowledge of early fakes. The coin looks OK with exception to a week strike and a cleaning of some kind...Looks dipped with the obvious adobe color, but still a great example for the date. I'll stick with genuine AU details, cleaned. I'd prefer a butternut surface for a non-detail early copper.

 

VF30.

 

I'll guess the coin got an AU grade but I agree with Publius - the line from the jaw down Liberty's neck jumps out at me. I'll speculate the counterfeiter's attempted to correct a defect or die crack in the original strike and botched it.

Just a wild guess but I love these exercises.

 

35 on the slab

 

On a few dies the dentils actually DO overrun the rim.
See the attached blowup of an 1838 N-6 large cent.

 

I think the nose at least is accurate (I don't like it either!); you are on to something with the "dot" though.

 

It's definitely fake. I was giving my TPG grade opinion.

 

Not trying to add confusion but several have deemed the OP example as counterfeit for a number of good reasons. There is also a vote the 2nd one I posted is genuine; as I stated previously I own 3 1805 “C-4” examples and add this image as my 3rd one for comparison:

 

Now I'm confused, and it's only Monday.

 

Don't be confused! These 3 are different coins but have common marks and features between them that are unique to them and not die state characteristics for the variety. All three have similar strike characteristics and detail, so what are the chances all three are counterfeit if the OP is?

 

Looks like a very good chance. On the other hand, all 3 may just as well be genuine.

 

Thanks chascat- we will get to that!

 

OP, please put us out of our misery and reveal the grade/answer.

 

The dot after the E in LIBERTY is only seen sharply on all of the pieces except the TPG "MS" coin. Is that a giveaway?

 

Yes.
This is a CAD overlay of my examples versus a known genuine example; the marks exclusive to mine are obvious including the "dot".

 

Au details but a fake. It just looks off to me. The wear looks contrived