Unknown Chinese Coin

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by GeorgeM, Jun 2, 2015.

  1. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Not sure what this large Chinese coin is (the one next to it, for size reference, is a 1 Mace & 4.4 Candareens (aka 20 cents)).

    The unknown coin measures 32mm and is approximately 13 grams.

    The obverse legend appears to indicate a 50 cent piece from Kiagnan province, but I can't find a match for it in Krause (all the Kiagnan provincial pieces I'm seeing have English lettering around the dragon on the reverse). Help attributing it would be appreciated.
     

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  3. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    It's from Yunnan Province.

    Most 3.6 mace coins are rather uncommon to scarce. The only exception is Yunnan 3.6 mace which happened to be very common.
     
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  4. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Thanks! That was driving me crazy (the vest pocket dealer who sold it had it misattributed as a Republic of China 1949 50 cent, and I was wondering if I'd gotten a steal or bought a fantasy/forgery).

    ETA: Possibly not misattributed if he meant it was a 1949 restrike.
     
  5. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Krause notes that there are "more than 30 varieties of Y#257. In 1949, this coin was restruck in large numbers, but at reduced fineness." Any idea what the fineness was (and what the weight would be on those)?

    My catalog notes 3 major varieties (the 2, 3, or 4 circles below pearl on reverse types). Where is the pearl they're referring to?
     
  6. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    This might be a good page to start off with:

    http://hkmal.blogspot.com/2011/02/283-china-yunnan-republic-50-cents-1920.html

    To my knowledge, the reason why this is very common is indeed due to large amount of restrikes over a few decades. These coins may have serve trade purposes with Burma. Yunnan Province is also known for having a large silver deposit, which is also why Yunnan Province could have afforded to have plenty of silver coins struck. Despite the reduced silver content, most of other provinces could only afford to strike copper / brass / bronze coins or nickel coins. In the case of Kweichow Province, there was an experiment to circulate coins made out of antimony.

    As far as I am concerned, it looks genuine at first glance. As usual when it comes to Chinese coins, there's plenty of counterfeit but I'm certain this is not one of them. I am not sure how low the silver content went - you might need a XRF reading for it. Value-wise, to compare a restrike over a coin that was struck during it's prime days - I cannot say with certainty. That said, it should be worth at least 10 dollars or more.

    Chinese coins struck in between 1900s to 1950s can be very exciting if you have an interest in it. In particular, understanding the economic situation of each province led to how coinage was affected. Provinces that were low on certain commodities attempted to strike coins of lower value which often meant that merchants rejected them. The fat man 1914 Kansu 1 yuan is one example. Such coins were to be struck around 80-90% silver whereas Kansu coins were supposedly struck with 60 - 70% silver.
     
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  7. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Interesting, and thank you for the link. I'm familiar with older coins (primarily US & Spanish) that circulated in China with chopmarks to attest to their fineness. Was the practice still widespread into the 20th century? Or how did merchants screen out coins with lower intrinsic value?
     
  8. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Juxtaposing the coins shown on that link with my images, I think I finally spotted the "rings around pearl" variety type indicator. Am I correct in reading that more rings meant that the coin was minted later (and with a lower fineness?)
     

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  9. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    This is an interesting question. As far as I understand, chopmark is just a method to test if the coin is struck in "good" silver and not plated silver. Even in that era, counterfeits were a major problem. Usually with higher content silver, I presume that it would be soft compared to plated base metal which would be harder. I would highly doubt if the merchants be able to tell the difference between .800 silver to .900 silver. .600 silver might be pushing it as I presume the alloy would be much harder.

    Usually merchants would discriminate by provinces which were more likely to not strike to official standards. Kirin, Kiangnan, Kansu were some of the biggest culprits as these provinces were poor in silver. If I remember correctly, these were traded at a lower value because of such suspicion. Obviously all other foreign coins were subjected to further scrutiny. While most crown coins were tested, smaller denomination coins might be subjected to test once in a while although it was not common. Of course, while it's more profitable to counterfeit crown size coins, counterfeiters would not miss their opportunity to counterfeit essentially anything. I think I have a couple of 7.2 candareen coins that were chopmarked.

    As of how far this practice was continued, I would say it would be around 1910 - 1920s. This was when silver coins in particular the Fat Man coins were finally struck to official standard and the public had more confidence in using them without worrying too much about counterfeits and underweight silver content.
     
  10. Anthony H

    Anthony H Visit my "Coin-stagram:" @anthonythecoinman

    That coin is a Yunnan Province republican struck coin
    It is undated and is struck with unused dies!
     
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