United States Type Set with Gold - Complete

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by Todd Williams, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    The 1840 looks like a lamination and not post mint damage. Just asking why it would not straight grade? It is not PMD like a harsh cleaning or scratched or tooled or the like...
     
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  3. Todd Williams

    Todd Williams Making Grandad proud Supporter

    I've heard from others that the 1840 might be some kind of planchet flaw that peeled away the underlying coin structure such that it would be mint-related.

    This coin is a big question mark for me.

    I've heard everything from "post mint damage" to "mint error"
     
  4. furham

    furham Good Ole Boy

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  5. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    A lamination is a mint error, really a planchet flaw that was missed by the mint and struck by a die and released into circulation.
     
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  6. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I've just gotten through all 9 pages of this thread so far. If none of the gold coins are cleaned (and I don't see any sign of such from the full album page photos you've already provided), then, yes, the dealer was lowballing quite a bit. You've got an easy $7000 in scrap metal value on that page alone.

    As for the rest of it, there are some standouts and some duds, and it may not be obvious to you which are which. For example, the 1813 cent, while it might look like a dud due to the corrosion, is still worth more than $100 retail. Classic head large cents are the kind of thing where even just having one in the album makes it a worthy coin. The 2 cent is a real standout, as is the 3 cent silver.

    The 1840 dollar looks like a winner, too, except I'm not sure what's going on near the stars at about 1:30-2:00. The defect at the lower right on the obverse looks like a lamination, which is where a part of the alloy was improperly mixed, causing a part of the metal there to flake off. Technically, that should be called a "delamination," but it's a term we're kind of stuck with for historical reasons.

    The 1872 dollar has some obverse rim issues that are going to knock it down in value, as well as the scratches below the eagle on the reverse. This coin will never straight grade.

    The half dollars as a whole look pretty good, with the 1839 reeded edge being the real standout, IMO. The 1832 is weird looking, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. And, unfortunately, the 1903 is a big ol' dud due to the huge scratches in the center of the reverse.

    One other major dud worth mentioning is the 1853 Seated quarter. While the reverse is outstanding, whatever happened to the obverse just kills the coin.

    The steel cent looks like it might have a big scratch starting from the second T in TRUST, all the way down to the rim. Unless that's some kind of photo artifact, or a hair that accidentally landed on it, that's going to kill that coin. That isn't a huge deal, since the steelie isn't going to be a huge contributor to the value of the collection, anyway.

    What you do want to watch out for there is that many steel cents have been replated once the original plating wore off a little. I don't think this one has been replated, but, what you'd look for is a flat, reflectiveness, as opposed to a cartwheel type luster under a strong light. You'd also expect to see kind of mushy detail, which I don't see here, and which is why I suspect it's not been reprocessed.

    One other thing to keep in mind here is that the album itself, meaning the book, without the coins, would probably retail on its own for $75 or a little more, easy, even with the condition issues on the gold page. People forget about the value of the physical albums their coins are sitting in sometimes, and the 7070 is one of those that's both very popular, and hard to get, because the company isn't making them right now.

    There's obviously a lot more I could say about this album, but, what you need is definitely a proper appraisal, if only for insurance purposes. I don't think Heritage is necessarily the right place to go for this appraisal, because, although they do offer free appraisals, they're going to be geared more toward the type of stuff they offer in their auctions, and I don't think any of this really is a good fit for them, except maybe the gold. You should find a local dealer who will take the time to look carefully at every coin, and you will probably have to pay this person for their time, since you have no intention of selling.

    Even with all the problems I've mentioned, plus a couple I haven't mentioned, plus the potential issues that are there which I've missed, and only assigning melt value to the gold, you've got an easy $11-12000 retail here, I think. Obviously, that number goes up if your gold coins are all original mint state or very lightly circulated specimens with no damage.

    I know you said you didn't want to sell, but, that means that if you did want to sell, you could probably expect about 60% of that as an offer, which would be in the neighborhood of what the dealer offered you. So, my conclusion is that the dealer was probably looking at your gold pieces as scrap metal, which doesn't look warranted based on what I've seen. I am willing to be proven wrong based on photos of the gold coins, but that's what I think as of right now.
     
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  7. Todd Williams

    Todd Williams Making Grandad proud Supporter

    Paul. Great detail. Thank you for taking the time. Seriously.
     
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  8. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP

    Great run down by Paul there. I think that's exactly what the dealer was thinking. They're going to lean towards the safe side in their assessment. This is why high end stuff gets submitted to third party graders to be slabbed to take out the buyer vs seller subjectivity since people naturally have their best interest in mind when it comes to values. The slab pretty much takes that out of the equation as it authenticates it, protects it and provides a valuable grade opinion from no less than two professional graders, sometimes three, who are not buying the coin. They ARE human but these people grade coins for a living and are considered professionals and so the slabs are respected.

    As far as the the 1840 dollar goes, I suspected the gouge could be a planchet flaw too because you don't normally see damage that severe on a coin. It may be. Unfortunately, there are hair lines all over the coin on both sides and I believe it's been harshly cleaned. It may have been done in the 1800s or early 1900s. Who knows? Before you get too upset with the person from the past, people wanted coins shiny for a period in collecting history and cleaning coins was an acceptable practice in the hobby for decades. So many original surfaces were ruined and lost for all of time. Eventually that changed and now cleaned coins are not desirable, as people want original surfaces. Well, only a percentage got through time without being cleaned and stayed original. Now those are the most coveted examples.

    Without the planchet flaw, and the harsh cleaning, the grading company might give it a AU-55 grade. I'll just throw that out there. It would be somewhere close to that and it would get a regular label and be worth around $1800-$2k.

    If you send it in it will likely get a purple label, AU "Details" grade which at least authenticates (Chinese fakes have become a real problem) and it clearly has AU details. Then it will say planchet flaw (if they determine so) and harshly cleaned.

    The area at 2 o'clock on obverse concerns me too. It looks like a heavy rub from something on that. Anyway, with this grade, you will lose interest from many collectors but not all interest. Being what it is, it's still a valuable coin to type collectors. I stick by my original estimate that in said condition it's still worth 4 or $500 to a collector, ballpark. I'd expect at least $250 from a dealer for that coin since it was the first year and such a low mintage. NGC has only graded 300 of them and PCGS has only graded 477 of them in ANY grade.
    If only 10% of them have been sent in to be graded than maybe there's 7k of them left in existence from the original 61,005 mintage. Could be far less than that. Most type set collectors wouldn't bother looking for that year as it would be too difficult to find a halfway decent example.

    EDIT: Btw, I just went back and read the first few pages of this. The notes are so cool!! That would make me want to keep it even more to be honest. They should help with grades a little bit if checking out a price guide yourself. Oh the time before internet and excel. We don't know how good we've got it today.

    The $5 Liberty gold looked really good. Gold coins could be cleaned but tended not to be cleaned as much since they didn't tarnish like silver. If that's anywhere from an AU-58 to a MS-63, it likely falls somewhere in there, that's a 5 to $600 coin. If you only get gold melt value for it, it's $450. The numismatic value is more than 450 though. Good candidate to send in to be graded.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  9. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    I was thinking the same thing
     
  10. USS656

    USS656 Here to Learn Supporter

    I agree, the planchet flaw does not bother me as much as the rub across the top of the coin to the right of the head. That said, hard to find this coin with this little amount of circulation without paying big bucks.
     
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  11. Todd Williams

    Todd Williams Making Grandad proud Supporter

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