Unexpected Groupings appearing in my Collection...

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Justin Lee, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    So, I've been collecting for a little over a year now, and the past 45 days has been a high quantity period for me. And now, taking a step back and looking at my collection, I've found a couple unexpected groups appear...

    #1: Roman Hispania
    Ancient_Hispania-JL-072018.jpg


    CollageMaker_20180703_112040330 (1).jpg
    A) Irippo, AE24
    Semis, Time of Augustus, 27 BC - 14 AD

    Obverse: Bare male head (Augustus?) right, IRIPPO before, all within wreath.
    Reverse: Female seated left holding pine cone and cornucopia, all within wreath.
    References: RPC 55


    TCouwKhx (1).jpeg
    B) Augustus, AE As
    27 BC - 14 AD, Turiaso Mint

    Lucius Marius and Lucius Novius as duoviri
    Obverse: IMP AVGVSTVS PATER PATRIEA, laureate bust right, legionary Eagle Head countermark.
    Reverse: L MARIO L NOVIO MVN TVRIASO, II VIR within wreath.
    Reference: RPC 411


    CollageMaker_20180717_211538597.jpg
    C) Augustus, AE As
    27 BC - 14 AD, Celsa Mint

    L. Baggius and Mn. Flavius Festus as duoviri
    Obverse: AVGVSTVS DIVI F, laureate head right.
    Reverse: Bull standing right; L • BAGGIO above; C VI CEL to left, II VIR to right; MN • FESTO below.
    References: RPC 273


    CollageMaker_20180705_213427214.jpg
    D) Augustus, AE As
    27 BC - 14 AD, Colonia Patricia Mint

    Obverse: PERM CAES AVG, bare head left.
    Reverse: COLONIA PATRICIA, legend within oak wreath.
    References: RPC 129


    CollageMaker_20180717_210502899.jpg
    E.1) Augustus, AE As
    27 BC - 14 AD, Julia Traducta Mint

    Obverse: PERM CAES AVG, bare head left (double struck, die rotated ~90 deg CW).
    Reverse: IVLIA TRAD, legend within oak wreath.
    References: RPC 108


    CollageMaker_20180717_210147409.jpg
    E.2) Augustus, AE As
    27 BC - 14 AD, Julia Traducta Mint

    Obverse: PERM CAES AVG, bare head left.
    Reverse: IVLIA TRAD, legend within oak wreath.
    References: RPC 108

    -------
    #2 will be coming soon... Anyone care to guess what that unexpected group might be? o_O;)
     
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  3. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Prominent "SC"? (I checked out your Forum gallery. ;))
     
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  4. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    Your collection has come a long way for only a year, with some great coins Justin.
     
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  5. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Ha! I could totally see that, but that'd be quite a large group, and that had kind of been a slight intentional focus (Antioch SC coins, Augustus moneyer coins, etc), so not unexpected. Great guess though!
     
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  6. ominus1

    ominus1 When in Rome, do as the Romans do Supporter

    ah, a pattern emerges! great coins dude! :) sherlock.jpg
     
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  7. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Biblical Coins Supporter

    Those are great and all of them from the time of Augustus makes them even more fascinating from a "Biblical" collector's (like me if you haven't guessed ;)) point of view. A similar thing happened when I became interested in ancient Spanish imitations of Roman Republic coins.

    IMMO_POSTER.jpg
     
  8. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Wonderful coins Justin Lee..
    I am even more of a rookie than you... only 7 months in... (and I know it shows!)

    I do have a couple of Augustus coins to share:

    AugustusMERGE.jpg

    Obv: Bare head of Augustus, right
    Rev: SC within laurel wreath
    Antioch 5BC
    26.5 mm 15.66g


    AugustusSmall.png
    This is the sellers attribution - have not verified yet:
    Augustus 27 BC. - 14 AD., Philippi, Macedonia - bare head of Augustus right, AVG behind / two colonists (or priests?) ploughing right with yoke of oxen(3.12 grams, 16/15 mm) Philippi(?) mint, RPC I 1656 SNG Cop VI 282,
     
  9. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter

    I only have one coin of Augustus

    AUG new.jpg
     
  10. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Well - if I was to only have one... that would be my choice. Amazing!
     
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  11. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

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  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Here's one from Carthago Nova:

    Caligula and Caesonia.jpg
    Caligula AD 37-41.
    Roman provincial Æ 28 mm, 11.17 gm.
    Carthago Nova, Spain, AD 37-38.
    Obv: C. CAESAR AVG. GERMANIC. IMP. P.M. TR.P. COS., laureate head of Caligula, right.
    Rev: CN. ATEL. FLAC. CN. POM. FLAC. II. VIR. Q.V.I.N.C., head of Salus right, SAL AVG across field.
    Refs: SGI 419; Heiss 272, 35; Cohen 247, 1; RPC 1, 185; SNG Cop 503.
     
  13. RomanGreekCoin3

    RomanGreekCoin3 Active Member


    Love the Augustus with reverse bull.

    I just bought one like it. Its such an odd looking Augustus coin
     
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  14. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Supporter! Supporter

    Nice coins everyone , I have an Augustus minted Spain. 218344.jpg Temple of Mars,
    Augustus 27-14 BC. Spanish mint (Colonia Partica?)
    Denarius AR
    17mm., 3,48g. RIC 119.
     
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  15. dlhill132

    dlhill132 Member

    J.L., very nice Augustus collection!

    Doug
     
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  16. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    It's hard to tell... This could also be a Tiberius of the same location. They are really similar, but the Tiberius has a TI AVG behind the the bare head.

    [​IMG]
    https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/pa...437ae12colonist_with_oxen/222938/Default.aspx
    And: https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...s=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=

    Or could be Drusus
    [​IMG]
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1742859

    versus the Augustus:
    [​IMG]
    https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/wa...stus_27_bc14_ad__ae_23_mm/289903/Default.aspx
    And: https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...s=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=
    Might need to do some more studying of the styles of busts and oxen/priests to determine a direction.

    From my studies/experience, Tiberius (and Claudius and Nero) tends to have a lot more homogenous/consistent, horizontal neck hair portrayed at mostly straight to the right angle, and Augustus' is a little more inconsistent and "flow-y" or downward and to the right angle, if that makes sense... (I've noticed this is true-ish of Antioch Provincial coinage as well.)

    Tiberius:
    pjimage (16).jpg

    Augustus:
    pjimage (17).jpg
     
  17. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    So the second unexpected grouping that I found in my collection (an area that I wasn't focusing on) were Alexandrian Potin Tetradrachms. And, no, they were not purchased in a lot, but these purchases span across the past 14 months or so.

    #2: Alexandrian Billion/Potin Tetradrachms (non-AR tets)
    [​IMG]



    CollageMaker_20180717_205742747.jpg
    A) Maximianus Herculius Augustus, 1st reign 286-305 AD
    Billon Tetradrachm, Struck 290/91 AD, Alexandria, Egypt
    Obverse:
    MAΞIMIANOC CЄB, laureate and draped bust right of Maximianus.
    Reverse: Herakles standing right, head left, holding apple in right hand and club in left, star in upper right field, regnal year L S (year 6) across fields.
    References: SNG Cop 1042, Milne 4980-81, Emmett 4131


    CollageMaker_20180706_140100296.jpg
    B) Maximianus Herculius Augustus, 1st reign 286-305 AD
    Billon Tetradrachm, Struck 286/87 AD, Alexandria, Egypt
    Obverse:
    Α Κ Μ ΟVΑ ΜΑΞΙΜΙΑΝΟC CЄΒ, laureate and draped bust right of Maximianus.
    Reverse: Eagle standing left on thunderbolt, wings closed, head turned back with wreath in beak, star in upper left field, regnal year L B (year 2) across fields.
    References: SNG Cop 1021-1022, Milne 4828, Emmett 4108


    CollageMaker_20180717_205957388.jpg
    C) Probus, 276-282 AD
    Billon Tetradrachm, Struck 276/77 AD, Alexandria, Egypt
    Obverse:
    A K M AVP ΠPOBOC CЄB, laureate and cuirassed bust right of Probus.
    Reverse: Eagle standing left on thunderbolt, wings closed, head turned back with wreath in beak, regnal year L B (year 2) across fields.
    References: Dattari 5548, SNG Cop 915, SNG Frankfurt 1200, Emmett 3983


    CollageMaker_20180706_140508332.jpg
    D) Diocletian, 284-305 AD
    Billon Tetradrachm, Struck 286/87 AD, Alexandria, Egypt
    Obverse:
    A K Γ OYA ∆IOKΛHTIANOC CЄB, laureate and draped bust right of Diocletian.
    Reverse: Tyche standing left holding rudder & cornucopiae, regnal year LΓ (year 3) at right.
    References: Milne 4821, Emmett 4082


    CollageMaker_20180706_140242291.jpg
    E) Diocletian, 284-305 AD
    Billon Tetradrachm, Struck 289/90 AD, Alexandria, Egypt
    Obverse:
    A K Γ OYA ∆IOKΛHTIANOC CЄB, laureate and draped bust right of Diocletian.
    Reverse: Elpis walking left, holding flower and raising drapery of dress, star in upper right field, regnal year L S (year 6) across fields.
    References: Dattari 5670, Emmett 4046
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I have to ask: By your definition, when did silver drop to the point that you will collect the coin as billon?
     
  19. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    Should I change it to potin? Did I list one/some incorrectly? I'd seen similar coins on vcoins listed as both, so I picked one for consistency... I listed both in the beginning of my post. Where should I look to find such an answer? Sorry @dougsmit that I don't have an answer at this moment, I'm still in the process of learning and this isn't a focus of my collecting (for now).
     
  20. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    I've read that "potin" isn't exactly accurate as it means white metal like pewter or tin, which maybe these had an increased amount of, but they also had silver in minor amounts, but I don't know the percentage without doing more searching, etc. It seemed that there is some disagreement on what they should be called based on some previous posts on other forums and places online when I got my first one and was researching them a bit, but that is about a year ago now.
     
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I agree with the state of confusion on potin and use billon whenever I want to acknowledge some silver but it is hard to draw a line on the front end between silver and billon. I collect them all so it is not a problem to me but I wondered who was the oldest you could accept as not silver. This is not a right/wrong question but merely recognition that it was a gradual thing and went back and forth on occasion. Collecting all makes it easy. I could live with calling all Alexandria tets billon but some are obviously more silver than others.

    Is Commodus too silvery?
    pa0460fd3408.jpg
     
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