Ummmm... 0nly $19k for an UNC DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED 1893 Columbian Expo...Proof!??

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Kurisu, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    Shhhhh but there was no 1893 proof.

    Look at the last images, it's in an NGC slab graded "UNC DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED" lol!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/182465299416

    I'm reporting it so check it out while you can :sour::joyful:
     
    GH#75, Lem E and CoinJockey73 like this.
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  3. CoinJockey73

    CoinJockey73 Well-Known Member Dealer

    Wow! I just posted one of those today on @SensibleSal66's thread. Who knew it was worth so much! Awesome! Thank you @Kurisu :hilarious::bucktooth:!
     
    Lem E and Kurisu like this.
  4. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    This guy's listings...not sure how he sells so much but he's got an incredibly solid history of not so goodness...lol
     
    -jeffB and CoinJockey73 like this.
  5. Lem E

    Lem E Well-Known Member

    For $20k they could at least wipe the fingerprints off of the slab.
     
    micbraun and CoinJockey73 like this.
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    I would have laughed, considering it's not designated as a proof on the label. Silly seller, decided to declare it as a proof.

    But then I saw that the seller is Julian Leidman, a very prominent professional numismatist who knows his stuff. So... who knows?

    Nearly $20K is still absurd, IMHO. Especially with NGC not being on board with the proof attribution.
     
    GH#75, johnmilton, dwhiz and 2 others like this.
  7. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    Really? Like what? I've bought a couple of coins from that seller, with no problems. [knock on wood]
     
  8. l.cutler

    l.cutler Member

    There have been 1893 proofs certified. I guess the seller feels this coin is a proof that NGC failed to recognize. I would expect a description and explanation of this though.
     
    longshot and johnmilton like this.
  9. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    In which case you would resubmit it especially when youre someone with the ability to contact the higher ups directly to have a problem fixed which just shows you NGC is saying its not a proof.
     
  10. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Julian is one of the most well known honest dealers out there. If you see him at a show, take a moment to chat and look at the type of coins he deals in. One of the good guys for sure.
    He has a very strong opinion on these proofs. Some agree with him and some don't. This has been going on for many years. It's been fun to watch.

    Fun story about Julian.
    About two years ago some bad guys came into his store with some really important coins. He knew the coins and knew they were stolen. Instead of telling the guys to get lost he ask the guys to bring in more coins. Julian brought the police in for the meeting and many other stolen coins were recovered. A great day for the hobby.
     
  11. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat dave700x -1883 O nut

    This listing has been up since 2017 and been the subject of threads several times.
     
  12. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    I've heard his name over the years...but even with his high volume there are sooo many dings on his feedback as well as bunches of revised feedback.
     
  13. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I see a lot of negative and neutral feedback from buyers who were mad at the post office, or didn't understand what they were buying, or looked just plain unreasonable. Remember, since eBay allows only buyers to leave negative feedback now, it's inherently a one-sided story.
     
  14. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I'd be careful about discrediting Julian's offering. While his eBay feedback speaks of customer service issues, it does not undermine his knowledge of, or the accuracy of his description of the coins themselves.
     
  15. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    You got to ask yourself this question, if this was a proof and just needed the label going along with it. And you are a professional numismatist. Likely doing submissions all the time. Yet you offer this for sale for years and never get that fixed? If that label was proper that coin might have sold long ago. Why don't you send it back in? If this coin was in my hands and I believed that was a proof I would resubmit it. It's already details cleaned. You don't re submit it because you know it'll come back the same way. Because it is what it is.
     
    micbraun likes this.
  16. Kurisu

    Kurisu Supporter! Supporter

    I'm not discrediting. I'm just a heavy ebay shopper and that effects my shopping decisions...he is in fact one of my saved sellers. :)
     
  17. AdamL

    AdamL Likes Silver

    I saw those too. But I also saw quite a few from him not being able to find the coins he has sold. I hope he knows where he put this 20K one.
     
  18. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I'll tell him where to put it lol
     
  19. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Okay, I actually went and counted -- between the negative and neutral feedbacks over the last 12 months, there were six feedbacks saying he canceled the sale, and for most of them he apparently said he couldn't find the coins.

    During the same period, he's had 4392 positive feedbacks. And it's quite likely that a lot of his customers didn't bother to leave feedback. But even if they did, that's just over one in a thousand coins that he couldn't find. I've gotta say, that's a lot better than my track record trying to find coins I know I have...!
     
  20. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted Supporter

    As a pro numismatist, I’d take it to a show and discuss it with some of the TPGS reps or graders. Nobody is going to buy it online, especially not with its current label and price tag.
     
    AdamL likes this.
  21. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    The TPGs disagree. Heritage sold an 1892 PF63 4/23/2020 for $3480 and says roughly 100 exist for both 1892 and 1893, describing the 1892 as "part of the inaugural mintage." NGC has graded 237 1893s as PL or MSDPL, and 2 as PF. For 1892 they show 42 PF or PFCA, and 412 PL or MSDPL. PCGS has also designated 1 1893 as PR and 53 1892s.

    Julian obviously thinks this is one, but the price is crazy for details on a gamble.
     
    Oldhoopster likes this.
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