Two Mystery Trachys - ID Help Needed - John III Magnesia Mint? - John C-D Model City Type?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by The Trachy Enjoyer, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. The Trachy Enjoyer

    The Trachy Enjoyer Well-Known Member

    Here are two trachys I am having trouble identifying. Any input would be appreciated.

    Unidentified Trachy 1:
    IMG_7169_scrubbed.png IMG_7170_scrubbed.png IMG_7172_scrubbed.png

    Obverse: Half-length Military Saint holding spear/sword and shield (Demetrios or George?)
    Reverse: Half-length Emperor holding (?) up in his right hand, star above
    Left arm facing down holding Anexikakia(?), star (of different style than the former) above / ΩVA YVΕ

    I haven't quite seen anything like ito_O...I thought perhaps its a product of John III from Magnesia? Sear 2126 example from CNG:
    Example from Gorney & Mosch:
    Problems still exist. St Demetrius in Sear 2126 is seated and holding a sword across his lap. My example has the Military Saint standing (half-length) holding a spear/sword up and resting on his shield. Also, there is no second star on this type's reverse...G&M's example seems to have some sort of circular design in the same spot. Neither example has a legend above the emperor's head, however, with the design clearly cutting off right above.

    Sear 2127 Example from Munzen and Medaillen: 801137.jpg
    Sear 2127 is a product from the Magnesia mint with a matching (albeit common) obverse. Perhaps my example is some sort of mule between the two? The reverse might be match with sear 2126...I am not really sure. Thoughts on this coin? Has anyone seen the type before?

    Unidentified Trachy 2:

    Obverse: Brockage error (the main brockage indent corresponds with the Emperor's placement on the reverse)
    Reverse: Emperor holding Labarum in right hand (or this a wing?), holding city of Thessalonica in left hand with a Military Saint / UA

    This trachy seems to be a match with Sear 2213 but it has twist...The emperor in my coin is holding the labarum and there are two mystery letters ("U" and "A").
    CNG examples of Sear 2213:
    315709_scrubbed.png 3888354_scrubbed.png
    My example has the emperor holding what appears to be a labarum in his right hand. It looks a little washed out in picture but is there in person. None of the examples online have this detail. It could also be wing:
    Thoughts on this labarum/wing? This drawing shows what either would like in it’s entirety. Is this a full wing or rather where the labarum meets the coin die rim...or a die break...Thoughts?

    As for the mystery lettering "U" and "A", I am unsure. I wonder if the "A" isn't actually a third turret in the model city design (see the CNG examples for the 2 turret and 3 turret examples). The "U" could be part of "W" in the often seen "IWB" legend on John C-D coins.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

    Very interesting coin @The Trachy Enjoyer - as I am not an expert in trachys I can't provide much assistance.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    The Trachy Enjoyer likes this.
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