Troubles identifying silver Celtic coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roerbakmix, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    This coin has been in my collection for a few months already, and despite hours of searching, I've failed to identify it. So, once again, I hope for the collective knowledge of this forum to help me out.

    First, the coin:
    upload_2019-8-20_17-14-53.png
    Denomination: AR drachm? Obs: Unidentified; rev: Galloping horse to the left.
    Weight: 1.37g; Ø:1.6cm.

    For me, there are few discernable details: the observe shows, perhaps, a floral pattern, which is off-centered. Googleing 'Celtic floral pattern' however, gives many results, none of which have anything to do with coins.

    The reverse, showing a galloping horse to the left, is neither very helpfull.

    The seller stated "likely Helvetii Celts". Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  3. Pishpash

    Pishpash Mater dracones - spero

    Have you considered sending an image to Chris Rudd?
     
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  4. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

    The styling of the horse looks very much like eastern celts aka Danubian celts. Above the horse is an image of a wheel.
    My best guess about the obverse is we are looking at the laurel (laureate) headdress of a portrait facing right.
    This should narrow it down but getting a positive ID beyond that might be hard.

    I'm also not an expert, just an owner of a few coins from the region. Acsearch is your friend.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

  6. Aestimare

    Aestimare Active Member

    Hi Roerbakmix,

    I don’t have the right answer to your enigmatic coin, but I have some ideas.

    The shape, weight, surface appearance could indicate a well known strike/lost wax casting method used in Gaul in the roman denarius area. But not good silver ones (c.a. 1,80g-1,90g), fourree coins (c.a. 1,30g-1,40g), on an “unstroked” copper blank wrapped with wax before the strike (the manipulations of the blank after the strike on the wax explain the flattened shape and unstroked areas). Clay powder mixed to ashes will prevent the grip with the refractory past. Once cooked, at about 400°C the refractory moulds are immersed in water to avoid black oxides at the surface of the coins. (Katherine Gruel, Laurent Popovitch. Les monnaies gauloises et romaines de l'oppidum de Bibracte. Glux-en-Glenne : Bibracte, Centre archéologique européen, pp.28-31, 2007, Bibracte (Glux-en-Glenne) ISSN 1281-430X; 13, Vincent Guichard, 978-2-909668-16-1. ⟨hal-00172334⟩ ).

    The problem is :

    the following coin
    upload_2019-8-20_23-36-17.png
    (seen on eBay 2012-12-05), technically and geographically maybe comparable to yours, show an obverse and a reverse that don’t match. Obverse and reverse are both from the Aedui tribe, but are not dated of the same period. Another coin combines a DVBNOCOV/VIIPOTAL (same observation : same Aedui tribe, not the same period). Another one combine obverse and reverse from 2 different close tribes : https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=179663.

    The problem is then, that you possibly have to look for 2 different coins. The reverse could be an Aedui DT 3188 (just select DT 3188 on Acsearch), but the obverse ?

    Aedui, Sequani, Lingones, Leuci, Helvetii ?

    Good luck Roerbakmix !
     
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  7. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...i can identify it....its Celtic..:smuggrin:
     
  8. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the help so far. I will send the image to Chris Rudd (isn't he retired? It's Liz now, isn't it?). Will post the reaction here as well.

    As for the Dachreiter type: I've probably looked at over 300 images of AR dachreiter type coins, but did not find the type. @Aestimare may well be right about the minting technique and the consequences for identification.
    The DT 3188 type shows some resemblance.

    I'll just wait the response of Liz.
     
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  9. Roerbakmix

    Roerbakmix Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, Liz was unable to further identify the coin. I'll continue with the detailed information of @Aestimare (but of course still open for suggestions!)
     
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