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<p>[QUOTE="Clinker, post: 966404, member: 6229"]<p style="text-align: center"><b><u><font size="5">History of the 1909 Lincoln Cent</font></u></b></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Oh, what might have been!</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">The following is excerpted from the United States Treasury's <i>Fact Sheet on the History of the Lincoln Cent</i>. I've added underlines and bold italics to emphasize key parts of this excerpt:</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">(Beginning of excerpt) When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice.</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">The only person invited to participate in the formulation of the new design was <u>Victor David Brenner</u>. President Theodore Roosevelt was so impressed with the talents of this outstanding sculptor that Brenner was singled out by the President for the commission. The likeness of President Lincoln on the obverse of the coin is an adaptation of a plaque Brenner executed several years earlier which had come to the attention of President Roosevelt.</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">In addition to the prescribed elements on our coins -- <u>LIBERTY and the date </u>-- the motto <b><i>In God We Trust</i></b></font><font face="Times New Roman"> appeared for the first time on a coin of this denomination. Of interest also is the fact that the Congress passed the Act of March 3, 1865, authorizing the use of this motto on our coins during Lincoln's tenure in office.</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">A study of <u>three models </u>for the coin's reverse resulted in the approval of a very simple design bearing two wheatheads in memorial style. Between these, in the center of the coin, are the denomination (ONE above CENT) and UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, while curving around the upper border is the national motto, E PLURIBUS UNUM, which means "One out of Many."</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Even though no legislation was required for the new design, approval of the Secretary of the Treasury was necessary to make the change. Franklin MacVeagh gave his approval on July 14, 1909, and not quite three weeks later, on August 2, 1909, the new coin was released to the public.</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">The original model bore Brenner's name <u>Victor David Brenner</u>. Before the coins were issued, however, the initials "<u>V.D.B</u>." were substituted because officials at the United States Mint felt the name was too prominent. After the coin was released, many protested that even the initials were conspicuous and detracted from the design. Because the coin was in great demand, and due to the fact that to make a change would have required halting production, the decision was made to eliminate the initials entirely. They were restored in 1918, and are to be found in minute form on the rim, just under the shoulder of Lincoln. (End of excerpt)</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">So you see, we could need six different 1909 Lincoln Cents to fill our Lincoln Cent collection</font></font></font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">1909 VICTOR DAVID BRENNER (no photo - all dies and hubs were destroyed)</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">1909-S VICTOR DAVID BRENNER (no photo - all dies and hubs were destroyed)</font></font></p><p></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">1909 V.D.B. (click to see obverse)</font></u></b></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u></u></b><p style="text-align: center"><font face="Times New Roman">coinpage.com photo</font></p><p></font><p style="text-align: center"></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-2505.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-2505.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-2505.html</a></font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">1909-S V.D.B. (click to see obverse):</font></u></b></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p><p><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u></u></b><p style="text-align: center"><font face="Times New Roman">(coinpage.com photo)</font></p><p></font><p style="text-align: center"></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-8010.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-8010.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-8010.html</a></font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">1909:</font></u></b></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p><p><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u></u></b><p style="text-align: center"><font face="Times New Roman">(worldcoingallery.com photo)</font></p><p></font><p style="text-align: center"></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coine_us.php?image=img4/US-1c09&desc=U.S.A.%20Small%20Cent%20km132%20(1909-1942)%20Lincoln/Wheat%20bronze%20&query=cent%20lincoln%20wheat" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coine_us.php?image=img4/US-1c09&desc=U.S.A.%20Small%20Cent%20km132%20(1909-1942)%20Lincoln/Wheat%20bronze%20&query=cent%20lincoln%20wheat" rel="nofollow">http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coine_us.php?image=img4/US-1c09&desc=U.S.A.%20Small%20Cent%20km132%20(1909-1942)%20Lincoln/Wheat%20bronze%20&query=cent%20lincoln%20wheat</a></font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">1909-S (click to see obverse):</font></u></b></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></p><p><font size="4"><b><u><br /></u></b></font></font></p><p><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u></u></b><u><p style="text-align: center"><font face="Times New Roman">(coinpage.com photo)</font></p><p></u><p style="text-align: center"></p><p></font><p style="text-align: center"></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-7352.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-7352.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-7352.html</a></font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></p> <p style="text-align: center"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">A funny thing happened at the San Francico Mint when it came time to strike the "S" mint mark onto the obverses of the 1909 Lincoln Cent.. One or two of the employees placed the striking die in a position resulting in the "S" being horizontal. The error was discovered and corrective measures were immediately set in motion to redo the mint mark on the error coins by striking a verticle "S" over the horizontal "S."</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Another error occurred because some of the coins in the final bin of 1909 Lincoln Cents bore a regular verticle "S." So there are some repunched "S/S" 1909 coins. Some 1909 "D/D" RPM Lincoln Cents are known. No one knows why.</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">1909-S Over Horizontal S (Lincoln Cent Resource photo):</font></u></b></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.lincolncentresource.com/RPMS/1909SoverhorizontalSrpm2.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.lincolncentresource.com/RPMS/1909SoverhorizontalSrpm2.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lincolncentresource.com/RPMS/1909SoverhorizontalSrpm2.html</a></font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Some numismatic historians believe there was another stage between V.D.B. initials and no initials. It was never recorded because it was only discussed among the mint employees (no artwork was ever submitted nor any hub produced). That stage was to eliminate two of the initials. Rumor and hearsay suggests that the "B." was to stay, but who really knows?</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">If you would like to visit the U.S. Treasury's web site, here's the link:</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/lincoln-cent" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/lincoln-cent" rel="nofollow">http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/lincoln-cent</a>.</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Proofs of the 1909 V.D.B. (1,194) and 1909 (2,352) Lincoln Cents were struck with a Matte finish. I only located one photo. It is the 1909-V.D.B. Matte proof (photo courtesy of PCGS Library):</font></font></p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </p></font></p><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><b><u><font face="Times New Roman">NOTE:</font></u></b><font face="Times New Roman"> The 1909 V.D.B. </font></font></p><p></font><p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Proof has always been the KING of the Proof Lincoln cent series. On March 04, 2010 the highest-graded 1909 V.D.B. Matte Proof Lincoln cent sold for over $200,000. This is to date the highest price ever paid for a regular-issue business strike or proof small cent, including Flying Eagle, Indian Head and Lincoln cents. </font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6229&universeid=313&type=1" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6229&universeid=313&type=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6229&universeid=313&type=1</a></font></font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Have you ever seen a picture of Victor David Brenner? Here's one courtesy of wikipedia:</font></font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Victor_David_Brenner.jpg" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Victor_David_Brenner.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Victor_David_Brenner.jpg</a></font></font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Thought you might like knowing...</font></font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"> </font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><font size="4"><font face="Times New Roman">Clinker</font></font></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><font size="4"><br /></font></p> <p style="text-align: center"><br /></p><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Clinker, post: 966404, member: 6229"][CENTER][B][U][SIZE=5]History of the 1909 Lincoln Cent[/SIZE][/U][/B][/CENTER] [SIZE=4] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Oh, what might have been![/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]The following is excerpted from the United States Treasury's [I]Fact Sheet on the History of the Lincoln Cent[/I]. I've added underlines and bold italics to emphasize key parts of this excerpt:[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman](Beginning of excerpt) When the Lincoln one-cent coin made its initial appearance in 1909, it marked a radical departure from the accepted styling of United States coins, introducing as it did for the first time a portrait coin in the regular series. A strong feeling had prevailed against using portraits on our coins, but public sentiment stemming from the 100th anniversary celebration of Abraham Lincoln's birth proved stronger than the long-standing prejudice.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]The only person invited to participate in the formulation of the new design was [U]Victor David Brenner[/U]. President Theodore Roosevelt was so impressed with the talents of this outstanding sculptor that Brenner was singled out by the President for the commission. The likeness of President Lincoln on the obverse of the coin is an adaptation of a plaque Brenner executed several years earlier which had come to the attention of President Roosevelt.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]In addition to the prescribed elements on our coins -- [U]LIBERTY and the date [/U]-- the motto [B][I]In God We Trust[/I][/B][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman] appeared for the first time on a coin of this denomination. Of interest also is the fact that the Congress passed the Act of March 3, 1865, authorizing the use of this motto on our coins during Lincoln's tenure in office.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]A study of [U]three models [/U]for the coin's reverse resulted in the approval of a very simple design bearing two wheatheads in memorial style. Between these, in the center of the coin, are the denomination (ONE above CENT) and UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, while curving around the upper border is the national motto, E PLURIBUS UNUM, which means "One out of Many."[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Even though no legislation was required for the new design, approval of the Secretary of the Treasury was necessary to make the change. Franklin MacVeagh gave his approval on July 14, 1909, and not quite three weeks later, on August 2, 1909, the new coin was released to the public.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]The original model bore Brenner's name [U]Victor David Brenner[/U]. Before the coins were issued, however, the initials "[U]V.D.B[/U]." were substituted because officials at the United States Mint felt the name was too prominent. After the coin was released, many protested that even the initials were conspicuous and detracted from the design. Because the coin was in great demand, and due to the fact that to make a change would have required halting production, the decision was made to eliminate the initials entirely. They were restored in 1918, and are to be found in minute form on the rim, just under the shoulder of Lincoln. (End of excerpt)[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]So you see, we could need six different 1909 Lincoln Cents to fill our Lincoln Cent collection[/FONT][/SIZE] [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]1909 VICTOR DAVID BRENNER (no photo - all dies and hubs were destroyed)[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]1909-S VICTOR DAVID BRENNER (no photo - all dies and hubs were destroyed)[/FONT][/SIZE][/CENTER] [SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]1909 V.D.B. (click to see obverse)[/FONT] [/U][/B][CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman]coinpage.com photo[/FONT][/CENTER][/SIZE][CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-2505.html[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [/CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]1909-S V.D.B. (click to see obverse):[/FONT][/U][/B][/SIZE][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/u][/b][/size][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/U][/B][CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman](coinpage.com photo)[/FONT][/CENTER][/SIZE][CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-8010.html[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [/CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]1909:[/FONT][/U][/B][/SIZE][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/u][/b][/size][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/U][/B][CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman](worldcoingallery.com photo)[/FONT][/CENTER][/SIZE][CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL="http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coine_us.php?image=img4/US-1c09&desc=U.S.A.%20Small%20Cent%20km132%20(1909-1942)%20Lincoln/Wheat%20bronze%20&query=cent%20lincoln%20wheat"]http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coine_us.php?image=img4/US-1c09&desc=U.S.A.%20Small%20Cent%20km132%20(1909-1942)%20Lincoln/Wheat%20bronze%20&query=cent%20lincoln%20wheat[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [/CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]1909-S (click to see obverse):[/FONT][/U][/B][/SIZE][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/u][/b][/size][/CENTER][SIZE=4][B][U] [/U][/B][U][CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman](coinpage.com photo)[/FONT][/CENTER][/U][CENTER][/center][/SIZE][CENTER] [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.coinpage.com/coin-image-7352.html[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [/CENTER] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]A funny thing happened at the San Francico Mint when it came time to strike the "S" mint mark onto the obverses of the 1909 Lincoln Cent.. One or two of the employees placed the striking die in a position resulting in the "S" being horizontal. The error was discovered and corrective measures were immediately set in motion to redo the mint mark on the error coins by striking a verticle "S" over the horizontal "S."[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Another error occurred because some of the coins in the final bin of 1909 Lincoln Cents bore a regular verticle "S." So there are some repunched "S/S" 1909 coins. Some 1909 "D/D" RPM Lincoln Cents are known. No one knows why.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]1909-S Over Horizontal S (Lincoln Cent Resource photo):[/FONT][/U][/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.lincolncentresource.com/RPMS/1909SoverhorizontalSrpm2.html[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Some numismatic historians believe there was another stage between V.D.B. initials and no initials. It was never recorded because it was only discussed among the mint employees (no artwork was ever submitted nor any hub produced). That stage was to eliminate two of the initials. Rumor and hearsay suggests that the "B." was to stay, but who really knows?[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]If you would like to visit the U.S. Treasury's web site, here's the link:[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/lincoln-cent[/URL].[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Proofs of the 1909 V.D.B. (1,194) and 1909 (2,352) Lincoln Cents were struck with a Matte finish. I only located one photo. It is the 1909-V.D.B. Matte proof (photo courtesy of PCGS Library):[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][B][U][FONT=Times New Roman]NOTE:[/FONT][/U][/B][FONT=Times New Roman] The 1909 V.D.B. [/FONT][/SIZE][/center][/SIZE][CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Proof has always been the KING of the Proof Lincoln cent series. On March 04, 2010 the highest-graded 1909 V.D.B. Matte Proof Lincoln cent sold for over $200,000. This is to date the highest price ever paid for a regular-issue business strike or proof small cent, including Flying Eagle, Indian Head and Lincoln cents. [/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6229&universeid=313&type=1[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Have you ever seen a picture of Victor David Brenner? Here's one courtesy of wikipedia:[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Victor_David_Brenner.jpg[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Thought you might like knowing...[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=4][FONT=Times New Roman]Clinker[/FONT][/SIZE] [/SIZE] [/CENTER][/QUOTE]
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