TRIPLE ERROR Washington Dollar!!

Paul, the one I got for $80 has the rays and die clash clearly visible. I got really lucky. Mine has the 'C' between $ and 1 and all the other markers you showed are there. Nice ray effect also.

 

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http://coins.about.com/od/uscoins/a/presidents_coin.htm

 

OK,

I have one of these with all three of these same errors.

The die clash is undeniable with that part of the liberty crown showing on Washington's chin.

I'm still cautious about calling the pattern on the coin either a lamination error or grease between the dies. Of all the ones I have with this starburst pattern, no two seem to align (either with matching patterns or diminishing patterns) While some coins seem to have patterns that line up, others have different patterns that cannot be explains by the effect wearing off.

It is possible that these patterns were caused by a machine problem where grease was constantly being splattered (as opposed to a single incident). Of course, I would be more comfortable believing this effect is unrelated to the edge inscription step if someone can find a single one with an edge inscription.


NOW FOR MY THEORY.

The missing edge inscription was caused by equipment failure. If the edge inscription equipment is hydraulic or has a circulating lubricant and this rotating disc which spins the coins through the edge inscription step were to have a failure in which a hydraulic or lubricant line were to fail, then you could have a situation where the coins are spinning through the edge inscription step and being splattered with grease or lubricant. Due to the high speed of the process, the grease/lubricant is spun off the coin in a radiating pattern dissolving the antioxidant coating. This would produce a pattern similar to what we are seing and explain the missing edge inscription.

 

Possible explaination for the missing inscription Washington Dollars

OK,

Sorry for starting a new thread about this, but I am anxious to run my theory before a crowd.

In reviewing this thread, http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=22242, you will see some
pictures that the OP (n_sandler4) uploaded showing his coin with a "starburst" shaped pattern
on the coin.

I had twelve of these with the same pattern. I did not find a single one with the same pattern and a proper inscription,
but admittedly my theory allows for it. As all the coins I've looked at do not have any part that
matches identically, I'm arguing that it is not a problem associated with the stamping process.
I have a coin with the same die clash marks as the one pictured in the link above. The pattern
on mine is similar but does not match up with the one pictured. If the effect was die related,
you would see an increasing or diminishing pattern. As my coin has the effect in some spots not
seen in the pictured coin, and the pictured coin has the effect in some spots not seen in my coin,
I believe that it is improbable that it is related to the stamping process.

I've read a few articles now about how the edge is incused. It appears that the coins are rolled
between two large discs (similar to a ball going through a pitching machine). It would appear
that both discs would need to be going at the correct speed with respect to each other in order to
rotate the coin as it is incused. This is done at an extremely high speed to maintain the
advertised production rates.

If a coin were to have a drop of something on it and it were to be spun at a high speed, the drop
would radiate out in a pattern similar to what is shown in the pictures uploaded. A lubricant or
hydraulic fluid could be staining the coin or even dissolving the anitoxidant coating on the coin.
If the antioxidant coating is added after the edge inscription step, any grease on the coin
could be preventing proper application of the antioxidant and enhance the effect.

Now, if the machine was hydraulic or had a recirculating lubricant, a leak could eventually lead to
a failure of the equipment. If one of the rotating discs was slightly off in speed, an operator
may not visually notice anything is amiss. Unfortunately, the speeds would need to be precise to
properly rotate the coin as it goes through to give it a proper inscription. So, if the speed was
slightly off and the coins were not being rotated correctly, you would be forcing coins through, but
instead of being incused, they are being scraped. You will notice that many of the philly coins
have a sanded look to them, hence the initial guess that this error was forged rather than authentic.

If the reason for the incorrect speed of one of the rotating discs was a hydraulic leak or improper
lubrication, that could explain the appearance of some of these coins and why we are only seeing
it on ones missing the edge inscription. This theory could of course permit some coins with
normal inscriptions.

So, I open up to feedback on this theory and hopefully those with better insight into the specifics
of the equipment used to incuse the inscriptions can either refine it, or refute it.

Don

This thread has been merged with the prior one where you first stated this theory. One topic = one thread.

 

There's a small cud on the $1

 

Good theory. :thumb: It is a possibility IMO, but I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things, (hardly anythings in that matter lol) so I guess that could be it. Thanks for sharing your thoery with us. :thumb:

Phoenix

 

I think it's a good theory too. However I have a different one, for the "starburst" effect on the obverse and reverse. I don't have any technical explanations, but it appears that the rays of the starburst on the obverse line up rather well with some of the high points on the coin on the reverse, and since the obverse is mostly one big high point, the entire center of the reverse has the starburst. What I am saying is perhaps all of these starburst errors occurred due to a similar process.....

 

I can't find the thread off hand, but someone here was looking at the new washington dollar and comparing it to a sacagawea under a microscope.

they commented on how the antioxidant coating dulled the appearance of the washington dollar and decreased it's luster. They even commented on how the antioxidant coating looked bubbled in some spots.

I plan on breaking out my stereoscope this weekend and looking at some of the ones I have. If I can clearly see that this pattern was due to the antioxidant coating, then we will at least have a very plausible theory that the starburst pattern is caused by a contaminant (possibly grease, oil, non-aqueous fluid) on the coin that was spun off at some point in the production process.

The only point in the process I know of at the moment that spins the coins fast enough to do this is the edge inscription step. I was told that the production rate is about 750 coins per minute. That means that each coin recieves at least one full revolution in under 0.08 seconds (this is about idle rpm speed on your car to give a reference point). If there is another point that spins the coins fast enough, I would like to know. If there isn't, this means that the missing edge coins from Phillly went through the edge inscription step. Personally, this would seem to be the only way for so many to escape the mint.

If it took 10 minutes for an operator to realize something is wrong with the equipment, that's 7500 coins. If there is nothing obvious to the operator that the equipment is malfunctioning, an operator could go on indefinitely until something obvious happens, such as a fluid leak??

Just a thought. I will post back after I look at it under the stereoscope. thanks for the feedback so far.

 

sorry!

 

Well, I don't want to say anthing but....I found 3 of the Die Clash Washington Dollars in my roll. The only problem is, I don't have a good camera or scanner to show anyone. Mine are just like sandlers! I had no idea what to make of them. So I came here. I was surprised to read that others have found the same error coin as me. My roll came direct from usmint. Should I send them out to be graded? Are these coins valuable? I would like to eventually sell them. HELP!! Advise me on what to do.

Nana

 

are they also missing the edge lettering?

 

N_sandler,
Your coin I believe is a strike through error, which explains the starburst. There are many out there with this effect.

 

I've found enough with the starburst to basically match them all up into about 4 groups as far as the patterns go. That pretty much confirmed to myself that the starburst effect is a strikethrough.

I wonder if all these error coins were the result of a mishap at the die stamping step and were supposed to be sent off for destruction, but were accidentally sent off to be rolled (thus not only skipping the edge inscription step, but introducing many multiple error coins to the public).

 

Sorry for responding so late. Just got back. No, unfortunately mine has all the writings on the edge. I just seem to have the Die Clash or Strike through with Washingtons eyes on the reverse, and Libertys crown on the obverse and the extra spike. Everything like the picture that Sandler scanned only not with the smooth edge. I guess its a pretty common error, and not as valuable as we thought.

Nana

 

i have several that do not have edge lettering !

 

Really nice find. I wish my search into the Wash $s were so fruitful. Maybe you should have it graded and the coin will be authenticized and protected. Not to mention the obvious value increase.