Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 2638819, member: 24314&quot;][USER=4920]@eddiespin[/USER] I disagree with some of your post:</p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;Just an opinion but that difference between cleaning and conserving is a big load of semantic malarkey. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">NOT TRUE</span> NCS cleans coins. Period. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">This is absolutely true! In a nit-picky technical sense, you can consider holding a coin under flowing ionic water, putting it in an ultrasonic bath, blowing it with compressed air, or picking off some debris under a stereo microscope cleaning - which it is <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />!</span>&nbsp; <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">They also do more involved cleaning like removing the haze from proofs, etc.</span> That article, &quot;scientifically proven,&quot; my tail end! <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">See below</span>. There are harsh methods of cleaning and not-so-harsh. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">Yes, and that is key</span>! &quot;Acceptable?&quot; Boy, there&#039;s being kind to oneself in one&#039;s own mind. Let&#039;s not confuse this for the rest of us because some of us have to play pretentious word games to justify their staying in business. I&#039;ll clean my coins the way I want to clean them and I won&#039;t deceive anybody because in my mind it&#039;s conservation and as such I&#039;m not ethically obliged to disclose what I did to it. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">Decades ago I learned that there is NOTHING WRONG with cleaning coins.&nbsp; If a coin is cleaned PROPERLY, neither you or anyone else can tell or prove the appearance of its surface was altered in any way!</span>&nbsp; <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">That is the key to calling anything done to a coin as &quot;acceptable.&quot;&nbsp; No marketing or deception is involved and I&#039;ll bet you a dollar that NCS and the conservation services at ICG, ANACS, and PCGS can put you in contact with hundreds of pleased customers.</span> Even your formula should be disclosed to the buyer when selling the coin. But that&#039;s the big, big thing nobody considers. If the coin is cleaned, you have to disclose. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">IMO, this comment is absolutely politically correct, fairytale, BS.</span>&nbsp; If you can twist your mind into calling it conserved, great for you, you don&#039;t have to disclose. Tell me that&#039;s not how it works, the ethic. Tell me that&#039;s not why the strong need to differentiate, as well.&quot;&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">Call me a twisted old cheat </span><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie47" alt=":greedy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">You or anyone else is not going to detect anything I clean unless I screw up or the coin &quot;explodes&quot; on me for some reason (it happens to the best of us <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie80" alt=":shame:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />) and I&#039;m not obligated to say a peep about what I&#039;ve done to CONSERVE it.</span></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">As for that article you mention:</span></p><p><br /></p><p>&quot;There is a huge difference between cleaning and conservation. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">True</span> <u>Cleaning</u> is a very harsh process that is not recommended for ANY coin. <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">This sentence demonstrates both an over simplification to the point of being pure nonsense and a complete lack of understanding of the DEGREES involved with the act of cleaning an object.&nbsp; IMO, it needs to be modified as it will mislead new collectors. </span>It will leave obvious signs behind that any good numismatist can spot.&nbsp; <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">False! If I clean a coin properly it leaves no evidence.&nbsp; The true part of the statement only applies if the cleaning is not done correctly, is more harsh than needed, or the coin &quot;blows up.&quot; Then, most likely it will leave the traces mentioned above.&nbsp; Again the key is the DEGREE of cleaning.</span>&nbsp; <u>Conservation</u> is a delicate process that is performed with the utmost care. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">You might be surprised - it depends on our <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie93" alt=":troll:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> understanding of &quot;delicate.&quot; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; I know what you are saying and I agree</span>.&nbsp; It involves scientific methods that generally do not destroy or alter the coin’s natural patina or leave behind obvious signs of damage. <b>It is important to differentiate between the two and the terms should never used interchangeably. Cleaning = Bad, Conservation = Acceptable.</b>&nbsp; <b><span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">Very well put</span></b>. Professional companies who specialize in conservation, such as NCS (<a href="http://www.ncscoin.com/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.ncscoin.com/" rel="nofollow"><u>Numismatic Conservation Services</u></a>), are not considered coin cleaners. I don’t think they’d get much business if their company name was Numismatic Cleaning Services! Every collector I’ve met despises cleaned coins.&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <span style="color: rgb(179, 0, 0)">I&#039;ve got a humorous business card in my collection from the first conservator at NCS.&nbsp; I wish I could lay my hands on it now.&nbsp; As I remember that was the company name he used.&nbsp; The motto was something like: &quot;We clean &#039;em up real good.&quot;&nbsp; The name he used on the card was &quot;Dipper.&quot; </span>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in