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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Lehigh96, post: 2100884, member: 15309&quot;]So anyone who agrees with the TPG grading philosophy is wrong, but the handful of people who agree with you, know what they are talking about.&nbsp; Is that really your position?&nbsp; What I understand is that you are old man who is simply unable to adapt the advances made in the grading standards.&nbsp; The changes in grading standards are not a conspiracy by the TPGs to shovel out higher grades in order to make collectors feel better about their coins.&nbsp; They were implemented in order to alleviate what everyone else would consider punitive grading standards, such as your beloved &quot;wear is wear&quot; campaign.&nbsp; Nobody in their right mind would consider that Wells Fargo Saint an AU coin, except you.&nbsp; The market grading principles employed by the TPGs are fair, logical, and accepted by the numismatic community.&nbsp; And when I say accepted, it includes a whole lot of people who know a heck of a lot more about coins than you do.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>There is no difference between wear and frost breaks.&nbsp; Both involve metal displacement caused by coin to coin friction.&nbsp; The only reason that you think there is a difference is so that you can defend your practice of allowing coins with frost breaks to be graded mint state and relegate coins with &quot;roll bag/bag friction&quot; to AU status.&nbsp; Even the most novice of the collectors on this forum can see how disingenuous with respect to this topic.&nbsp; Furthermore, you are grading that Morgan from a photograph.&nbsp; I can show you another photograph and the frost breaks which are so evident practically disappear.</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://coins.ha.com/itm/gsa-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars-morgan-dollars/1881-cc-1-gsa-ms66-ngc-vam-2/a/1216-6674.s" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://coins.ha.com/itm/gsa-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars-morgan-dollars/1881-cc-1-gsa-ms66-ngc-vam-2/a/1216-6674.s" rel="nofollow"><br /></a></p><p><a href="http://coins.ha.com/itm/gsa-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars-morgan-dollars/1881-cc-1-gsa-ms66-ngc-vam-2/a/1216-6674.s" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://coins.ha.com/itm/gsa-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars-morgan-dollars/1881-cc-1-gsa-ms66-ngc-vam-2/a/1216-6674.s" rel="nofollow">1881-CC GSA Dollar, MS66+ VAM-2, Doubled 88</a></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://dyn3.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B1%2F2%2F1%2F1%2F4%2F12114857%5D%2Csizedata%5B840x2000%5D&amp;call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Looks like an MS66 to me!</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The luster is broken on the knee of that Saint, in the same way that the luster is broken on every other uncirculated Saint in existence.&nbsp; But is doesn&#039;t take a brain surgeon to see that the total metal displacement on the knee of that Saint is far less than the total metal displacement of the luster grazes on that Morgan Dollar.&nbsp; In both cases, the metal displacement came from coin to coin contact.&nbsp; Remember Doug, the Wells Fargo Saints came directly from sealed bags.</p><p><br /></p><p>Btw, I never called them luster grazes on the Saint.&nbsp; I said that luster grazes are essentially the same thing as &quot;roll/bag friction&quot;.&nbsp; The difference between your argument and mine is a matter of credibility.&nbsp; You see, my argument is not actually mine.&nbsp; Everything I have said comes directly from the PCGS THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION.&nbsp; You are stating that any breaks in luster are wear, and any coin with wear should be graded AU.&nbsp; Except those coins that have luster grazes of course.&nbsp; And what grading entity do you quote to support your position?&nbsp; You claim it is ANA grading standards, but you have never provided any quotes from those written standards on this subject, EVER!&nbsp; So while I make logical point after logical point and provide quotes from the PCGS standards to help make those logical points, your rebuttal is always in the form of &quot;No Paul, you are wrong, BECAUSE I SAY SO!&quot;&nbsp; Well, who are you?</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>And your reason that it doesn&#039;t make sense?&nbsp; Thats right, &quot;because you say so.&quot;&nbsp; You admit that the degree of severity is what is important.&nbsp; You are fine with friction when it creates frost breaks, but if it causes metal displacement on a coin with a design that is prone to high point friction, you draw the line and call it wear.&nbsp; Again, why do you get to draw the line of what friction is acceptable for mint state and what is considered AU?&nbsp; You have absolutely no proof that the Morgan Dollar was not subjected to more severe coin to coin friction than the Wells Fargo Saint. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Again, why is it not true?&nbsp; That&#039;s right, &quot;because you say so.&quot;&nbsp; You claim that you can see the color difference between weak strike and wear, but when PCGS says that it is possible to see the color difference between wear and &quot;roll/bag friction,&quot; it is not true.&nbsp; The amount of arrogance that it takes to make that statement is staggering.&nbsp; PCGS has published a book on their grading standards.&nbsp; A book that you like to criticize for being inconsistent.&nbsp; When is your book coming to stores?&nbsp; If you are such and expert on coins, why don&#039;t you write a book detailing why the TPGs are wrong?&nbsp; Here is a title recommendation for you:&nbsp; Doug on Coins, Because I say so!</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Wait, what?&nbsp; You just said that &quot;bag friction is not the same as a luster graze&quot; and in the very next sentence you state &quot;the frost breaks on that Morgan were caused by bag friction.&quot;&nbsp; Such an unfortunate time for a Freudian Slip.&nbsp; Frost breaks have a glossy silver appearance that is different from the dull gray caused by wear.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>You can&#039;t have it both ways.&nbsp; If breaks in luster are how you identify wear, than any coin with a luster graze (break) has wear.&nbsp; Under you method of grading, you must grade any coin with a luster graze AU.&nbsp; Now who is being inconsistent?&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The PCGS standards are not inconsistent.&nbsp; Can you find some minor contradictions within their book?&nbsp; Sure, so go blame the editor of the text for not catching them.&nbsp; But when you read the whole book, the theme becomes very clear as do their grading standards, and the contradictions that you cite fade away.&nbsp; What causes inconsistency in grading is the inherent subjectivity in grading and the application of grading standards by graders of varying expertise.&nbsp; I submit that most of the mistakes that you see in TPG plastic are made by graders who are either grading too quickly or are not experienced enough to handle the coin that they were grading.</p><p><br /></p><p>Your grading is consistent, unfortunately, it is not accurate.&nbsp; If you think that grading consistently wrong is a good thing, then great, good job.&nbsp; But if you want your opinion to have any meaning to the members of the forum, then you need to stop using grading standards that are uniquely yours.&nbsp; Unless you are gonna write your own book and start your own grading company!&nbsp; If a guy comes on the forum with an MS65 Morgan Dollar and wants to know if it is worth grading, what good does it do him for you to tell him he has an MS63 Morgan Dollar that is really not worth submitting?&nbsp; You are typically 2 grades lower than almost every TPG grade and have been for all the time I have been a member of this forum.&nbsp; Heck, you did it in the last post.&nbsp; What grade were you gonna give that Morgan?&nbsp; MS63?&nbsp; Looking forward to reading the book![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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