totally confused. difference between proof and ms?

i will use the 1964 roos dime for instance. why is pf65 in the red book $3 and a ms65 $6?

 

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I would suspect the population MS-65s is much smaller than the population of PF-65s. Proof coins are made using special care whereas Business Strike coins were intended for circulation and were not made using any special care.

 

Exactly what the other two said. A proof coin being special made is much more common on its condition so it has a higher standard regarding value so it would need to be a pf69/70. The ms coins however are for circulation and as such because of people constantly using them, finding them in ms65 is harder than a proof in pr65.

 

However, in reality, a PR65 Roosevelt 1964 can be had for melt, and also can be found in bargain bins at most dealers or B&Ms.

I picked up, recently, 57-64 proof Roosevelts, from a local B&Ms bargain bin for $2 each when silver was around $27 an ounce.

 

i was delivering chinese food last year (yum) and we had a claw machine in the store and the vendor was emptying it and he had 23 silver quarters he saved. i didn't have enough on me but scored 10 of them at $3 a piece. i love those special steals

 

In plain English, high percent of MS coins are circulated. None of PF coins are circulated unless someone deposit PF coins at bank, then it will become a circulate coin. Bottom line, PF coins always, maybe not always in pristine condition.

 

Once an MS coin is circulated it is no longer Uncirculated (Mint State).

 

Right, what I mean that MS from mint typical released to public and it will be circulated coin. It's hard to find higher grade MS coins because only MS coins can be found from mint set or possible from mint bag.

 

What is circulated? A coin goes from the mint to brinks to rolls to the bank and you pick them up and give it to a customer who pockets it. Is it MS or not?

 

You're kidding, right?

 

He never kids :thumb:

 

Jeez! Why don;t folks just answer the OP's question insetad of hijacking the thread into some other whacked out discussion?

MS coins are intended for circulation and receive no special handling. As such, finding a high graded example can prove challenging.

Proofs, on the other hand, are NOT intended for circulation and as such receive special handling to insure that the coins produced are excellent examples of the coiners art.

Actually, in technical terms, proofs are done with a different manufacturing process than circulating coinage.

Proof planchets get inspected and polished to a mirror like finish before they are struck. Planchets for MS (circulating) coins are not.

Proof dies are made under higher tonnage presses and are themselves polished to a mirror like finish. Dies for MS (circulating) coins are not.

Proof dies are good for about 5 to 6 thousand strikes.
Circulating coinage dies are good for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of strikes.

Proof Planchets are struck a "minimum" of twice with much higher tonnage presses to bring up the full relief of the coin. MS Coins for circulation are not.

The net result is a higher "average" grade for proof coins over the circulating counterparts. As such, its much easier to find a high grade Proof coin than it is a high grade MS (circulating) coin. This fact by itself dictates that high grade common proof coins have a lower price.

Like everything else in this world, coin prices are controlled by supply and demand. Have a big supply (on average) and you'll have lower prices coupled with low demand. Have a low supply (on average) coupled with high demand and you'll have higher prices.

Proof coins, on average, have higher grades than MS (circulating) coins regardless of how they end up in the end users hands.

 

No I don't think he is kidding. A lot of people seem to have problems with what MS is. A lot of people think that once someone touches the coin or once it has been used in commerce that it can't be MS and can be no better than AU. This is not true. A coin pulled from circulation can still be MS or Uncirculated. Until the coin shows evidence of WEAR it is still MS. So the coin in MrBrooklyn's example is MS.

 

MS

Proof

 

Well put. That said, I always wondered how coins from "original rolls" can get AU. I can understand no-grade...maybe. I imagine even the mechanical sorting and wrapping can result in a lower grade. Any defect in striking can be MS, but why would it be no-grade or AU if it came straight from the machine without human or extraneous environmental degradation? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I know this is coin lesson 101, but I missed the class.

guy

 

Minted for general circulation:




Proof:

 

What is the different between picking coins up fresh from the bank prior to entering general circulation and Morgans that sit for 50 years in mint bags.