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Topic: Daniel Carr's Fantasy Coinage. AKA: Bikeracks. After school.
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<p>[QUOTE="Blissskr, post: 2313584, member: 34882"]18 U.S.C. 487</p><p> Whoever, without lawful authority, makes any die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, either of steel or plaster, or any other substance, in likeness or similitude, as to the design or the inscription thereon, of any die, hub, or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper, or other coins coined at the mints of the United States; or</p><p> Whoever, without lawful authority, possesses any such die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, or permits the same to be used for or in aid of the counterfeiting of any such coins of the United States—</p><p> Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both.</p><p> 18 U.S.C. 485</p><p> Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than 5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or in actual use and circulation as money within the United States....</p><p> </p><p>If you read his own comments to the FTC that I linked earlier there is no doubt he's aware that what he does isn't legal or the very least had doubts. Though much like earlier threads here his defense always end up centering on intent. But often times intent doesn't actually matter. Just because one doesn't intend to break the law but then does anyway certainly doesn't absolve one of guilt. Much like ignorantia juris non excusat, being ignorant of law isn't a defense.</p><p><br /></p><p>And yes they're claimed to be fantasy overstrikes, etc. But based on old threads here Daniel seemed to think they were acceptable as legal tender and wouldn't cause harm if they ended up by mistake being used in commerce because he minted them on legal tender. That implies he has the authority to coin monies for the U.S. does it not? Once the coins have been altered into something else it doesn't matter what the planchet was originally imo. But even being 'fantasy' pieces based on precedence not being marked copy or replica is illegal based on an old FTC decision regarding a similar matter.</p><p><br /></p><p>The case is linked below</p><p><a href="https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/commission_decision_volumes/volume-92/ftc_volume_decision_92_july_-_december_1978pages_171-273.pdf#page=26" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/commission_decision_volumes/volume-92/ftc_volume_decision_92_july_-_december_1978pages_171-273.pdf#page=26" rel="nofollow">https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/commission_decision_volumes/volume-92/ftc_volume_decision_92_july_-_december_1978pages_171-273.pdf#page=26</a></p><p><br /></p><p>The key piece relating to the matter is where the FTC commission found at the bottom of page 53 'that altering the date wasn't sufficient to avoid a coin being marked as a copy.' And altering the date is exactly what's being done regardless if they're being struck on genuine U.S. coinage or not.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Blissskr, post: 2313584, member: 34882"]18 U.S.C. 487 Whoever, without lawful authority, makes any die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, either of steel or plaster, or any other substance, in likeness or similitude, as to the design or the inscription thereon, of any die, hub, or mold designated for the coining or making of any of the genuine gold, silver, nickel, bronze, copper, or other coins coined at the mints of the United States; or Whoever, without lawful authority, possesses any such die, hub, or mold, or any part thereof, or permits the same to be used for or in aid of the counterfeiting of any such coins of the United States— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or both. 18 U.S.C. 485 Whoever falsely makes, forges, or counterfeits any coin or bar in resemblance or similitude of any coin of a denomination higher than 5 cents or any gold or silver bar coined or stamped at any mint or assay office of the United States, or in resemblance or similitude of any foreign gold or silver coin current in the United States or in actual use and circulation as money within the United States.... If you read his own comments to the FTC that I linked earlier there is no doubt he's aware that what he does isn't legal or the very least had doubts. Though much like earlier threads here his defense always end up centering on intent. But often times intent doesn't actually matter. Just because one doesn't intend to break the law but then does anyway certainly doesn't absolve one of guilt. Much like ignorantia juris non excusat, being ignorant of law isn't a defense. And yes they're claimed to be fantasy overstrikes, etc. But based on old threads here Daniel seemed to think they were acceptable as legal tender and wouldn't cause harm if they ended up by mistake being used in commerce because he minted them on legal tender. That implies he has the authority to coin monies for the U.S. does it not? Once the coins have been altered into something else it doesn't matter what the planchet was originally imo. But even being 'fantasy' pieces based on precedence not being marked copy or replica is illegal based on an old FTC decision regarding a similar matter. The case is linked below [url]https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/commission_decision_volumes/volume-92/ftc_volume_decision_92_july_-_december_1978pages_171-273.pdf#page=26[/url] The key piece relating to the matter is where the FTC commission found at the bottom of page 53 'that altering the date wasn't sufficient to avoid a coin being marked as a copy.' And altering the date is exactly what's being done regardless if they're being struck on genuine U.S. coinage or not.[/QUOTE]
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Topic: Daniel Carr's Fantasy Coinage. AKA: Bikeracks. After school.
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