Top Thaler is NGC graded and on ebay, bottom is on ebay and a fake (?)

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Trish, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Trish

    Trish Well-Known Member

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    I love coins, especially world coins and I was lucky enough to inherit a beautiful and varied world collection five years ago and I've been reading and going to shows since. Here's my problem-the more I read on various sites, the more I'm worried about fakes and with that, the fear of not knowing enough and wasting good money out of ignorance. Who are the wolves? I only posted these two coins because I was mad that the second one (ungraded) was on ebay and pretty expensive and the date and face look wrong and they claim to be the same coin (both same reverse).
    I don't want to buy only graded coins especially in the world coin arena so how did you as a more experienced collector know who to trust as a seller? I've seen some sites have lists of bogus sellers but is there a universal list? I'm asking for advice because this has me at a stand still.
     
    Theodosius and longshot like this.
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  3. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    What makes you think it is counterfeit?
     
  4. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    There are lots of obvious discrepancies. Just look at the font used for the '5', for example.

    Here's mine for another reference image.

    1795_CH_BR_1Ta.jpg
     
  5. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Was there only one obverse die used? U.S. coins of the same period used different number punches, like crosslet 4's.
     
  6. Numismat

    Numismat World coin enthusiast

    Looks like a variety, at least two other examples in Heritage archives match that date numeral.
     
  7. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    coincommunity.com has a forum dedicated to counterfeit reporting and the site owner has some connections with ebay that typically result in getting an egregious item pulled quickly. Unfortunately, Ebay has a conflict of interest problem because sales of any coins, genuine or otherwise, generate so much income.
     
  8. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Yes that second image looks like the single plume DAV-1760. The others are the double plume, DAV-1759. Another learning opportunity. :oops:
     
  9. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Curiously, I see examples of both type 5s for the single plume variety.
     
  10. Trish

    Trish Well-Known Member

    Thank you! :) I'll look at coincommunity.com. I'm not sure about authenticity and that's what gives me pause about buying anything, (btw, the facial expression looks different too).
    Are there world coin auction sites that you trust?
     
  11. jgenn

    jgenn World Crown Collector

    Your best defense is to learn how authenticate the coins that you want to collect and that can be a lengthy, but rewarding process. With enough skill, you can buy on ebay with success and there are reputable dealers there that will try to answer your questions, provide additional pictures and, of course, accept returns.

    Although you may hesitate to buy certified coins because of the price, I should point out that there are many people that are professionals in this business so it can be difficult for hobbyists to find better prices than what they are willing to sell for. That being said, your best bet is probably the auction format, where both collectors and dealers compete to buy the same lots.

    I like a wide variety of older silver crowns and I don't need them to be in high AU or MS state to pique my interest. I've purchased quite a few in Heritage Auctions' Weekly World and Ancient events, some certified and some raw. Although I used to pay attention to many more auction listings than I do now, I am still on many auction house mailing lists and am still tempted to pickup a few interesting items.

    Perhaps you should define what types of coins you want to pursue and post a new thread asking for recommended auction houses.
     
  12. Trish

    Trish Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the great advice and taking the time. I've been stuck in gear and frustrated, and this gives me an idea on how to proceed. I know which countries I want to focus on (collection has no focus now). I'll do some studying on those countries (about what to look for/authenticity) and then ask a more pointed question, (and I'll look at Heritage too) and I'll stop with the parentheses, (lol).
     
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