Featured Toners: There's not always treasure at the end of the rainbow

I recently picked up another Jefferson nickel album full of toners...



Sounds awesome right? Not always.
With the good, comes the bad.

With my experience in buying full albums of toned coins, it's fairly common to get the black "carbon" spots on some of the coins in the album. In fact, I believe these little jerks are the reason the coins are toning. With some luck, they only infect a few coins...

In this case, not many of the toners were spared from the spots.
It's a shame, because some of these are real beauties.

This will be a good opportunity to try some techniques to remove the spots, without removing the color. We shall see what happens.

In the meantime, here are some of the infected coins that otherwise, would be real stunners.


This one is a choice gem. Bummer.
eek..

Not too bad on these guys..

There are some toned coins that have been spared and the coins with little to no toning do not have the spots either, sans a handful.

 

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those are some nice nickels.

 

Greg, I've never tried using acetone on any coins, but I've heard that if the toning is natural, it won't be affected. I don't know if this is true or not. Have you ever heard this?

Chris

 

Yes I have heard this and have had some experience with it.
I don't think it's about natural vs AT. It's more about what caused the toning.
Acetone will remove foreign substances on the coin and not affect the metal composition.
So if the toning is caused by a foreign substance, such as finger oil, or whatever, than the acetone will remove it. However, if the toning has united with the metal itself, then it shouldn't be affected. The examples I posted should not be removed by the acetone. Either way, we will find out soon enough.

Side note: Even if those carbon spots are removed, I believe there will be noticeable spotting still on the coin, silver color though, not black. Those carbon jabroni's have most likely rooted through the luster layer, at a minimum.

 

Thanks, buddy!

Chris

 

One more note... Since most AT coins are toned rapidly, the toning is actually a foreign substance on top of the coin, and hasn't had years to penetrate the metal composition. In theory, acetone will remove the color.

 

This doesn't sound right to me.

IF the AT is produced by adding a colored foreign material to the coin, and that material is acetone-soluble, or bound to the coin by something that's acetone-soluble, then, yeah, acetone will take it off.

But natural toning, and many forms of artificial toning, consists of a surface layer of sulfide or oxide on the coin. These surface layers are very, very thin, and the color comes from interference effects as light passes through the layer. They're also chemically bound to the surface, and they're not acetone soluble. Acid dips will remove them, by reversing the chemical oxidation that first formed them, and/or removing both the layer and the metal beneath.

So, to your original points:

Some forms of AT can be removed by acetone -- dyes, enameled layers, and so on.

Many forms of AT can't be removed by acetone -- those done by baking, sulfides, and so on.

Natural toning, as well as many forms of AT, consists of a "substance on top of the coin" -- a sub-microscopic layer of sulfide or oxide. This layer won't come off with acetone; it will come off with dip (acid/reducing agent), or by physically scouring it off. And if the chemical reaction goes far enough to penetrate into the coin, it's corrosion, not toning, and ruins the coin.

Greg, you've dealt with toners a lot more than I have. Does this make sense, or am I confusing myself here? I had thought most AT was done by heat or by chemicals that mimic the natural process; do you find that most AT coins lose their color in acetone?

 

It is true

 

I'm going to throw my two cents in regarding this post:

 

Your comments make sense Jeff.
I couldn't tell you how most AT coins are produced. I do know that the ones produced via a quick chemical dip, will be removed in acetone. Baked or otherwise longer term AT processes may not be removed. I can't say definitively.

 

Doug, I think we are on the same page. I knew I shouldn't have called them carbon spots. In fact, some of them are green, not black. Reminiscent of verdigris.
I agree they are a product of a contamination. I suspect they have a high concentration of sulfides or other chemical that in fact produces the toning.

 

Are you going to try anything on the coins? Except for the spots they do look really nice.

 

Yes. I will try some various things. Including acetone, verdicare (although it's for copper), and some other manual techniques using toothpicks and a dip of some sort. I will share the results with the class.

 

I've never tried verdicare on spots like this, but have had great results removing the green haze and spoting on 1970s mint set coins.

 

Any news?

 

I haven't tried any kind of cleaning on coins so I would be curious of the out come before and after.Before I joined this site I heard vinegar and salt works but on the advise that everyone says on here I don't clean them but I don't know if it may cause some kind of chemical reaction to the metal. I guess I could try myself on some unimportant coins but I figured since you were experimenting I would mention it.

 

I guess that depends on your definition of 'works'. What was being discussed amounts to conservation methods - tweaking the appearance of a coin (hopefully) without causing any appreciable damage to the coin itself.
A salt and vinegar mixture amounts to 'harshly cleaning' a coin, destroying much of the collectible value. This would be in the same category as silver polish, or other undesirable mechanical methods.