Toned ? Why Not

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bear32211, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Calling all experts, this 1924 Peace has been certified by NGC and is MS62. Please explain to me during the grading process why they did not note 'Toned'. Are they supposed to ? Is it possible the toning took place after grading ? Help the newbe here, to understand more about certifying a coin which has this look but not noted . Thanks. ms62 peace toned.jpg part III.jpg ms peace toned II.jpg
     
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  3. NSP

    NSP Well-Known Member

    I think they only note toning if they think it was artificially applied, meaning that the Peace Dollar's toning is natural.
     
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  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    At one point, NGC used to use the letters "W" for white and "T" for toned, but that was discontinued quite a while before NGC began using the new "Edge View" holder.

    Chris
     
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  5. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    OK so the edge view holder is a protective holder that holds the coin more securely ? What else would it do ?
     
  6. rickmp

    rickmp Frequently flatulent.

    The key phrase here is "edge view".
    Get it now?
     
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  7. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    NGC introduced the "Edge View" holder about 2007 or 2008 after the Prez dollars were released with edge lettering. @Conder101 could probably give you a more accurate timeline.

    Chris
     
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  8. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Excuse me ? I'm not as well rounded and educated about coins, the process of grading them, and the understanding of slabbing them like you. That is why I ask these questions, so I can better understand the terminology used, like 'edge view'. I was wondering what 'edge view' had to do with my original question which was, why toned was not noted when the certification took place.
     
  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I think Chris just mentioned the "Edge View" holder as part of the timeline -- there was a brief time when NGC noted "white" or "toned" on holders, but that was long before they started using the Edge View holders, and that's why your Edge View holder doesn't have that annotation.

    I'm not sure why the grading companies stopped noting toning. Maybe they thought it was too subjective, or maybe they realized that the coin can tone after it's put in the slab, resulting in an inaccurate label. (I doubt that, though, given that they still slab copper as "red", "red-brown" or "brown", even though the same things apply.)

    Today, grading companies don't note toning on the holder unless they think it's artificial or questionable ("questionable color"). In those cases, they put the coin in a "Details" slab, because they view the toning as damage that makes the coin ungradeable. They do consider toning as part of eye appeal, though, and so sometimes particularly pretty toning will earn a coin a "star" (*) annotation.
     
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  10. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Thank you the information. Very helpful. I'm looking forward to it's delivery. I thought is was a fascinating piece. I don't want to say how much I purchased it for at this time. Worried about that. Any thoughts as to it's value ? I will let you know later. Promise !
     
  11. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    The holder doesn't need to say "toned" because if you could read such a holder designation, you could also see the actual coin, which is clearly toned or un-toned.
    Similar to how if you want to know if it's raining at your house, you could look outside instead of wanting the weatherman to tell you it's raining.

    Everyone has a differing opinion at to what is attractive and unattractive toning. Would you want a hideously black toned coin to be labeled the same as a beautiful rainbow toned coin? Also, toning changes over time and coins that are white can become toned in the holder. It's sort of a unhelpful designation, which is why NGC stopped doing it long ago once they came to their senses.
     
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  12. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I need to add one more observation which has not yet been mentioned.

    It is generally accepted that NGC holders are not 100% resistant to outside elements like air or water. However, it is also accepted that the seal of the slab is sufficient to retard toning significantly. If this were not true, then coins that had been encapsulated many years ago would continue to tone until they turned black. I owned many encapsulated toned Morgan dollars for 20-30 years, and the toning never changed.

    Chris
     
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  13. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Interesting this is why I made the comment about not saying "Toned" because I saw this picture while doing some quick researching. That is why I am wondering if the tone effect took place after the grading. double toned morgan.jpg
     
  14. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    You have help a lot that is why I just posted another picture with the questions I have been asking.
     
  15. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father Moderator

    There was a period of time when NGC did use the designation, and obviously the above holder is a specialized holder. It sounds like you have an interest in the history of TPG slabs, so I would definitely do some reading at these links:

    http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2248608&fpart=1

    http://www.sampleslabs.com/ngc.html
     
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  16. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Now, you're getting into another part of the timeline. The multi-coin holder you posted above was introduced just after the State Quarter program started in 1999. It was designed to hold the five quarters that were produced each year.

    However, other collectors realized that this holder was perfect for a multitude of other applications like the Morgan dollars shown above. In this case, the submitter probably requested that the label include the description, MORGAN DOLLAR 2-PIECE TONED SET. A normal descriptive on the NGC insert would not even mention "Morgan" let alone "Toned", just "S$1" for Silver Dollar.

    Chris
     
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  17. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Thanks. The site provided assists me in many ways. It clearly shows me that I am a first grader compared to all of you who have a Masters Degree. The various holders used and how they changed just is amazing. Lots of reading to do, lots of learning ahead of me. Great info.
     
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  18. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    Yes, cpm9ball, the previous post I was typing is a great break-down of the years when holders changed and why. Much to learn, much to read.
     
  19. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    FYI

    As you can see from the geek's link, there are many, many design changes for the NGC slabs. As extensive as Conder's list is, there are newer versions that have been released. For example, there is an over-sized slab that is about twice the size and thickness of the multi-coin holder for large medals, and there is another slab that is about 1-1/2 times as thick as a normal slab for holding high-relief and thicker coins and medals.

    @Conder101 can correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that he is working on a new edition to his book.

    Chris
     
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  20. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    When it's in the plastic it's deemed "natural" by the TPG. You can see it yourself and don't need to be told it's toned.
     
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  21. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    I understand, I am just concerned that, if the coin is sold, the buyer would question why there was no notation about the color of that piece.
     
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