Toned Franklin Half Dollar

Here is a picture of the progression of ARTIFICIAL toning. This is the same coin with a picture taken every 8-10 seconds as the coin was being AT'd (thermal oxidation method). The progression goes from pale yellow to gold to orange to reddish purple then purplish blue to blue.

 

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270426929439

here's the seller I bought the franklin from

you guys think I should file a dispute from it being AT or could it really be NT

also I have alot of those gold toned coins (the 3rd coin in the above picture right next to the purple top coin) in the ends of all my mint rolls I would suspect since the 4 mints boxes I opened have gold toned coins on the ends
2 buffalo and 2 ocean in view boxes so what would they be seen as? if I don't open them they are natural toned and if I do open the rolls they are considered AT??

 

Novice here: That does NT and AT mean?

 

NT= natural toning and AT= artificial toning.

 

Sure glad Lehigh chimed in.....it could happen.....:smile

 

thanks

 

NGC wouldn't slab the OP coin and PCGS certainly wouldn't (yes, I know there are exceptions that have slipped in but they're exceptions).

On the other hand! ... Furham, your coin looks great. That is a great look IMO. I do wonder about what is going on between the date and Ben? Have you noticed that mark?

 

My guess is that you purchased this coin very cheaply. Unless the seller claimed in the listing that the coin was NT, you should just strike it up to a learning experience.

My advice to you is to only buy PCGS and NGC encapsulated rainbow toned coins until you have more experience. I have tons of experience and I still don't buy raw rainbow toned coins, all risk--no reward.

 

Eddie,

I am about as liberal as they come with regards to AT coins, but even I have a limit, and this coin went way past it.

 

I believe it's a reed mark where one coin hits the other as they are being coined.

 

The spots that Doug and Vess1 mentioned would be extremely interesting to see up very close. I don't think this coin looks "heavily" enough toned for pieces to chip off as would be expected for longer term reaction ( more probable NT). If close observation show the spots with irregular edges, that would be a good sign for NT. If the edges are perfectly smooth ( as in a liquid edge), it would indicate more a solution applied. Buy it for regular value as you can always dip it when you get tired of it ( market acceptable) and enjoy the color if you like it.

Glad to see there is finally a AT/NT thread

The only subject to get me "poofed" on another forum.

Jim

 

But that's your tastes, Mark, in a toned coin, like I said. I don't like "loud" toning. Pocket Change doesn't like "Art Deco" toning. But, another person says, "Loud? Art Deco? Excuse me, folks, that's monster toning. And I love monster toning." That's that persons tastes.

I think I can get a feel for your gradual toning, even appreciate it, for the same exact reasons as you. But, what are we doing, here? Are we imposing what standards, what tastes, should be in the eye of the beholder in a toned coin? That's not too right.

There was a CU thread. When the coins were thought to be NT, they were liked by the members who bought them, and, for that matter, considered "market acceptable" by the TPGs who slabbed them. Then, the seller comes back and says, "Nope, they're AT, I had them all doctored (paraphrasing)." Then, everybody condemned the coins. Supposing the guy came back, later, and said, "Nope, they're really NT. It was a joke, folks. I just wanted to see how you'd react." And, a thousand FBI lie detector tests "prove" he's telling the truth this time around. Are they back to liking these same coins? First, they like the coins, because they think they're NT, then, they don't like the coins, because they think they're AT, then, they're back to liking the coins, because they think they're NT? These are the same coins.

Did you see Doug's repro of the Thaler Dollar he showed here only like 9,000,025 times since I've been here? It toned in a very short time, like in a matter of months. And all he did was subjected it to storage. Others were subjected to the same storage, and some of those toned a little bit, but not like this one. Supposing he listed it on eBay. He simply subjected them to storage. These are NT coins. Supposing, instead, however, he subjected them to storage with the malicious intent of toning them. Does he now list the coin on eBay as AT? If he lists it as NT, when his intent was to tone, is he scamming the public? I'll say it, again. Do you like the toning? And, is it not spray paint? Then, go for it, it's NT. That's what it boils down to.

There's a TPG that will slab coins AT if it thinks so. And yet, it doesn't even define AT. How irresponsible is that, giving that kiss of death to a coin, slabbing it in a "coffin," as such, when it can't even articulate/define what it's talking about? I'm sorry, I fail to understand it.

Don't mean this flippantly, Lehigh, but good for you. Respectfully.

 

I was only answering your question about "who cares how that happened" and explaining why I and some others do care. Still, I'm all for people buying what they like (though I prefer/hope they are at least informed and knowledgeable in their decisions). And yes, I understand that there is no universally agreed upon definition for NT and AT. And that even if there were, often, we couldn't tell them apart.

 

Gotcha. And, FWIW, I share your tastes.

 

Mark, I loved both of your last 2 responses. This is exactly why people should care. I have a feeling that 90% of the people buying coins like this in the OP assume they are equal to a naturaly toned coin that acquired real toning by sitting in a mint bag or an album for decades as nature took it's course. Which is certainly not the case with these.

I'm guessing if those 90% of people decided to inform themselves a little about toning and all of them suddenly realized that there's people tinkering with and doctoring coins to make fancy colors on junk silver in a few minutes time, for the sake of profit.... I suspect that very few of these types of coins would ever sell. But, I'd say the coin doctors that do this are pretty safe and may as well keep coloring coins.

I agree Mark, that kind of loses it's allure to me as well.

 

Thank you and I'm glad you feel that way.

 

Wow, iwas expecting it to be a little toned but not THAT MUCH!!

 

I find it fascinating that you seriously believe that 90% of collectors buying toned coins are that unaware of the fact that there are people out there tinkering with and doctoring coins.

 

Well, for starters, just going off the threads, here, I don't think one can say very many collectors, here, don't know it. In the other forums I hang in, same thing, for the same reasons, just look at the threads. Is that good enough?