Toned coins, when are they...

When is toning on a coin considered legit and when is it not?

I'm horribly confused on when toning is considered acceptable and I feel like no one has a consensus.

Hear me out...

Outside interference by a person are my key words for artificialy here because that's what I feel is normally considered artificially. I also always hear people say all toning is damage and i'm going to ignore that for now.

Outside interference such as:

• Heat
• Chemical
• Light

Most of us would agree if a person puts egg (chemical interference) on a coin and heats it to change its color it is not natural. This is because the coin would not have done this on its own.

What about if a person were to clean a coin in its past and an outside chemical interference residue caused the coin is it artificial? Or how long ago can a coin be cleaned and it then be considered natural? If a coin was cleaned 200 years ago and toned because of it, is it natural or is it artificial? And if so, what is the cutoff for time.

If a coin is album toned it was left in an album for too long and toned because of it. I can see that as an artificially toned coin because it needed some outside chemical interference from an item that had to be put there by a person. This requires time but also chemical and heat. When is an album toned coin considered natural vs. artificial. If I tone one in two years vs 50 whose to say what counts?

If a coin is left in its wrapping, or bag, or a safety box it was put there by a person. Chemical interference from its environment it was placed in causes the changes but we consider that natural but not if it was done recently. If its a mint bag or old safety deposit box versus new toning from a drawer in a house is that natural or artificial?

In all cases the coin had an outside chemical interference introduced by a person causing a reaction with the metals of the coin. I don't understand why some is not acceptable and other toning is.

What do you all think and what is your experience with toning discrimination?

 

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When it's spray paint or nail polish, it's not tarnish. When it's tarnish, it's tarnish. All tarnish should grade because there's no way to differentiate it, except by completely arbitrary standards. If you like the tarnish, buy it, and if you don't like it, don't buy it. That's my standard.

 

A toned coin is a toned coin, but are they really worth the premiums??

 

Well, they shell out for them.

 

@eddiespin
For example, what made me start thinking about this is I have a toned Steelie cent. But it's been cleaned and toning is likely from that. However, if it had been cleaned more effectively so it could not be detected then this Steelie would be worth a lot more because they are very rare to be toned. But no one would then know what caused the toning and it would be just as accepted as any other toned coin.

Just as any other Steelie cent that is toned may be from the same chemical but because one is known where it toned and the other isn't known then the known is worth less.

It's just odd to me. Ha

 

Well, but we could tell the cleaning. Cleaning strips off the patina. That's like the life of the coin. It would be like turning a diamond into glass. We'll tell, because it won't have any "glow," but rather a flat, "dead" surface. It may be a really shiny one, but lifeless. And you don't get that "life" back. Once it's gone, it's gone, Jackson.

 

after looking at many many toned coins. you get to tell which ones look natural and which ones do not. There are some coins out there that can fool the best collectors. different color toning is only liked by some collectors. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder to which he or she likes.

 

@spirityoda I am not a pro at identifying but I do know there's a difference between they way they appear, but my question is more towards when you have artificial toning that looks natural do you still consider it tainted if you couldn't tell the difference until someone told you how it is toned?

 

I also have figured out which coins are "market acceptable" and which ones are not even close if that helps ???

 

It's just a deep thought question ha but I like what @GDJMSP said about intent.

The only problem now is proving intent. Ha so essentially all toning is whether or not the buyer believes it's legitimate ha

 

Nobody can prove intent, which is why the TPGs don't consider it a factor when grading. Like it or not, TPG certification is the only thing that will provide a toned coin liquidity in the marketplace.

 

Hence the reason for acceptable vs not and the move away from the artificial vs natural stuff.

 

Finally, you said it. What took you so long?

 

Because it's finally starting to dawn on their thick heads those "standards" were arbitrary.

 

We all know that the TPGs screw the pooch every once in a while with regards to toned coins, but their practice of employing market acceptability keeps the large majority of AT coins out of TPG plastic. Some collectors are astute enough to recognize TPG errors related to toning and avoid those coins. Other collectors are completely dependent upon the TPGs and will continue to provide liquidity to all toned certified coins, even those that are AT.

 

This thread needs some pictures.