Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Toned $2 1/2 Gold Indian! Put your shades on....
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="physics-fan3.14, post: 2235503, member: 19165"]Well, let me break it down and tell you why you're wrong: a 90% gold coin is mixed by weight, not number of atoms. The atomic weight of gold is 197 (by the way, the gold atom is noticeably larger than copper - but gold is denser, meaning that on the macro scale the same mass will take up less space). That means for a weight of 197 grams of gold, there will be Avogadro's number of molecules (6.022 x 10^23). The atomic weight of copper is 63 (for a weight of 63 grams, there will be 6.022 x 10^23 molecules).</p><p><br /></p><p>So then, we can ratio that down to 90 grams of gold (which would be 2.75x10^23 molecules) for every 10 grams of copper (which would be 0.955 x 10^23 molecules). The ratio thus becomes about 2.88 gold molecules for every copper molecule. (and thus, just as [USER=7957]@rlm's cents[/USER] said, every 4th atom will be copper)</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the number of molecules in the surface layer itself (here, I will make a number of assumptions, but you'll get an appreciation for the order of magnitude, which is the important part): The average radius of a gold atom is 144 pm (picometers), the copper atom is 128 pm. We'll just use an approximation of 140 pm as an average radius, for ease. If the radius of an atom is 140 pm, that means its effective area (its 2-dimensional projection) will be .0615 nm2 (square nanometers). The surface area of a $2.5 gold is 254 mm2 (square millimeters). Thus, I would expect roughly 4.13x10^15 molecules on the surface plane of the coin. Assuming a perfectly homogenous alloy (which might not be the best assumption, but it makes it easier), if 1/4 of those are copper molecules, then I would say that there is plenty of chance for those copper molecules to react and tone. </p><p><br /></p><p>(As I have discussed elsewhere, the layer of the film which causes toning must be 1/2 the wavelength of the light of the complementary color that we see - blue being created by a film about 290 nm thick. It isn't just the very surface layer. If you look at the width of the atom, we're talking about 1000 atoms deep for the toning - which means there are even more copper atoms available for toning). </p><p><br /></p><p>Science.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="physics-fan3.14, post: 2235503, member: 19165"]Well, let me break it down and tell you why you're wrong: a 90% gold coin is mixed by weight, not number of atoms. The atomic weight of gold is 197 (by the way, the gold atom is noticeably larger than copper - but gold is denser, meaning that on the macro scale the same mass will take up less space). That means for a weight of 197 grams of gold, there will be Avogadro's number of molecules (6.022 x 10^23). The atomic weight of copper is 63 (for a weight of 63 grams, there will be 6.022 x 10^23 molecules). So then, we can ratio that down to 90 grams of gold (which would be 2.75x10^23 molecules) for every 10 grams of copper (which would be 0.955 x 10^23 molecules). The ratio thus becomes about 2.88 gold molecules for every copper molecule. (and thus, just as [USER=7957]@rlm's cents[/USER] said, every 4th atom will be copper) As for the number of molecules in the surface layer itself (here, I will make a number of assumptions, but you'll get an appreciation for the order of magnitude, which is the important part): The average radius of a gold atom is 144 pm (picometers), the copper atom is 128 pm. We'll just use an approximation of 140 pm as an average radius, for ease. If the radius of an atom is 140 pm, that means its effective area (its 2-dimensional projection) will be .0615 nm2 (square nanometers). The surface area of a $2.5 gold is 254 mm2 (square millimeters). Thus, I would expect roughly 4.13x10^15 molecules on the surface plane of the coin. Assuming a perfectly homogenous alloy (which might not be the best assumption, but it makes it easier), if 1/4 of those are copper molecules, then I would say that there is plenty of chance for those copper molecules to react and tone. (As I have discussed elsewhere, the layer of the film which causes toning must be 1/2 the wavelength of the light of the complementary color that we see - blue being created by a film about 290 nm thick. It isn't just the very surface layer. If you look at the width of the atom, we're talking about 1000 atoms deep for the toning - which means there are even more copper atoms available for toning). Science.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Toned $2 1/2 Gold Indian! Put your shades on....
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...