To slab or not to slab.

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The SEC, Good Lord??? Your not talking about the "Shopko Excellent Customer" program I take it, LOL

 

question;

speaking of ngc with a grade of ms 70, concerning modern coins, i have seen what appears to be
a water spot on the obverse side of the coin,my question is ? is it possible for someone to replace
a coin , in a ngc holder with a differnt coin. if ms 70 represents a perfect coin, then the spot should
not have been there. please correct me if i am wrong, or let me go another way,is ms 70 just a
pile of H.S
thanks.

 

Let me guess---the coin is an ASE??
If so that is something commom to happen to them and it will lower the grade to around MS68/9.
This is why PCGS will not give out 70's because they don't want this to happen---and that my friend is nuts.
Call NGC--I think if they grade a coin and it turns in the holder then they re-grade the coin and pay for the lost....they pay based on fair Market Values---that may not be what you paid for it

Speedy

 

ase;

yes you are correct, it was a ASE that i was refering to,that was a hard one to figure out.
i was reading through some of the replys , and unless i overlooked it somewhere, i did not see
anything relating to mintages, does that not also play a part in the value of a coin, or is that
also misleading.i know that inb is a big joke and that they grade almost everything ms 70, and
my first experience with slabed coins were from inb,never again,but i have to say this the coins
looked extremely nice.i guess if somebody wanted some very nice coins to start a raw collection
they could buy these and bust em out .

 

just a min---are you talking about a coin slabbed by NGC or INB??? from your first post it sounds like NGC??

It wasn't really had to guess the ASE---they are a newer coin and a good many grade MS70....there is also a problem with a way the mint washes the blank planchets before the coins are struck and many times months down the road---even years---small milk spots come up on the coins....put two and two together and when someone is talking about a coin that all of once had some small water spots on it---I would first guess ASE!

Speedy

 

Excellent post, GDJMSP. Thanks for clarifying. I can understand how some might be unhappy with TPGs, but I've been very satisfied in my dealings with them.

 

I think people should use grading services that grade problem coins like PCI and ANACS they seem to grade costently. ANACS is best for grading lincoln cents.

 

I love the idea behind TPG's. I have never sent one in to be slabbed, but have bought quite a few allready slabbed. I will buy the coin, and not the slab - but as National dealer mentioned in his original post, i use the TPG's almost like a crutch. I can look at 2 coins side by side, and almost guarentee that i will not be able to tell the diffference and why one is ms63 or ms64/5 (or any other grade). large spreads in grades are easier, but 1 or 2 points is not easy if not impossible for me. If i speant a considerable amount of time studying the coins and grades, i might be better able to tell the difference. But for me, coin collecting is about the coin, the history - not so nuch about the technical aspect of it being a 64 or 65. depending on the coin (and price) if its not slabbed, i will usually try and use a generic guide - VF has a hair that shows, EF has 3 our of 5 letters that show ... that type of guide.

 

The top 4 grading services see plenty of coins. they're opinion is he best. The coin market is still full of 60+ year old old-timers who got into the hobby in their younger days when there were no graders. The old-timers are mostly honest, they actually believe in the pencil-grades they put on their cardboard holders. but I dont like the uncertainty of self-grading. When I go to the coin show to sell a coin, I dont want to visit five dealers, to shop for the best grade offered. The hobby is a bunch of f---ed up b------ if that is what I have to do. I want SLABBED coins. I want to be able to trust the price I get at the FIRST table I go to. I buy only slabbed coins now. Buzz's coins in davie, florida goes to the show. George from Buzz's coins always gives me a fair price. If its in a PCGS or NGC holder, he doesnt try to dicker down the grade.

 

Personally, I think the TPG companies are slowly killing each other off with all the back-stabbing and crackout upgrade gimmicks in an effort to wring every last dime out of the collecter. TPGs are simply like the MFP that used to be advertised in Colgate Toothpaste, or the DuPont UnderCoating for your new car. Snake-Oil... Real collecters don't need the service.

 

I dont know that under-coating is really a rip-off. Some people buy a car to keep it past its prime. I would have to get on an automotive website, and ask some car experts what the real statistics are, for rusted floorboards.

 

I built a set of PCGS 1881-S Morgans, AU thru MS-67, each and every grade. It's helpful just to have that referance, a 60, or a 62 or whatever. Next I'll do a P mint then an O mint.

Also have a set of 09-S Lincolns PCGS from VG thru AU-55, same thing. Not only fun, but a great way to build a true grading set referance.

 

Hmmm, Didn't mean to lie...Could not find all the 81-s's, but heres a look at a neat set anyways.

 

:hail::hail::hail: AMEN BROTHER!:hail::hail::hail:
:bow::bow::bow::bow:

 

Jack:
That is one great grading set.

 

NGC or PCGS only

I would only do PCGS or NGC. I can't tell you how many coin collectors I've talked to that regret their ICG coins. I'm sure ICG does a fine job grading but the market trusts PCGS and NGC. Reality is perception especially in coin collecting.

 

Are Any Of Them Really Consistant?

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM ARE FOOLPROOF. I'VE OWNED 1 ICG COIN THAT I THOUGHT WAS RIGHT ON FOR THE GRADE. FROM THE ICG GRADED COINS I'VE SEEN, THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY DARN CLOSE WITH THE GRADING. I'VE HAD SEVERAL DISAPPOINTMENTS WITH NGC SO FAR. I'VE HAD 4 OR 5 COINS THAT I THOUGHT WERE GRADED TOO HIGH, AND SEEN QUITE A FEW OTHERS AT SHOPS AND SHOWS. UNFORTUNATELY I'VE ALSO HAD SEVERAL COINS THAT THEY'VE UNDER-GRADED TOO. I HAVE 2 1941-S JEFFERSON NICKELS WITH FULL STEPS. ONE OF THEM HAS GORGEOUS ALBUM TONING AND HAS JUST SLIGHTLY CLEANER SURFACES. I SENT BOTH IN SEPARATELY. ONE CAME BACK MS-66FS (JUST AS I EXPECTED), BUT THE NICER OF THE TWO CAME BACK MS-65. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT IT DIDN'T GET AT LEAST THE FULL STEPS GRADE. THERE IS A $1,170 DIFFERENCE IN VALUE THERE. I'VE HAD ONE OTHER NICKEL COME BACK THE ANOTHER INSTANCE IS 2 IDENTICAL ALBUM TONED KENNEDY 1/2'S I SENT IN TOGETHER. BOTH WERE RETURNED IN BODY BAGS (ALONG WITH 6 OTHER COINS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GRADED). THE COINS WERE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME. ONE WAS IDENTIFIED AS ARTIFICIAL TONING, WHILE THE OTHER WAS BAGGED FOR AN IMPROPERLY CLEANED OBVERSE. IT WAS SIMPLY RIDICULOUS. THE LAST EXAMPLE I'LL GIVE IS A MONSTER TONED BUFFALO NICKEL I SENT IN THAT WAS BODY BAGGED FOR ARTIFICIAL TONING. I SENT IT BACK IN, AND IT CAME BACK MS-65. YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW HOW THOSE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE GRADING. I'VE DISAGREED WITH MANY OF NGC'S GRADINGS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S WHAT THE MARKET GOES BY.

 

I agree that any service in the big four are going to get the grading right. It's just about who the public, at the end of the day, trust. A lot of people won't buy a coin graded by anyone but NGC or PCGS. Not saying it's the way it should be, just saying the way it is.

 

Other TPGs

Just for people who may be new to this. In addition to the top 4 there are some decent TPG's. I've had good results with SEGs for instance. However, many, if not most, of the other slabbers on Ebay are worse than incompetent.
They are actually owned by dealers in many cases and are used to boost the selling value on Ebay and are financialy motivated to fluff up the grade. AU's and even XF's are graded MS something. I once bought a MS66 slabbed Seated Liberty Half that looked ok in the picture but when I got the coin it was clearly improperly cleaned. On Ebay the rule should be buy the picture (even this isn't always safe...photo wizardry) and RUN from the slab.