To free or not to free?

I'm going to make this my last post on the subject of raw coins versus slabbed coins because the subject has been beaten to death on this website & most members know where I stand on the subject. I didn't join CT to perpetually discuss raw versus slabbed coins, I joined to share knowledge & personal experiences about coins, & in that respect the experience has been rewarding . I can appreciate the fact that most ancient coin collectors on this website do not like coins in slabs, so be it . There is no point in mocking a collector who buys slabbed coins or sends his coins to a third party grading company to get coins slabbed, that only creates animosity & ill feelings. I can get all the animosity I can handle by discussing politics & religion among friends .

 

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My apologies again. Sometimes I pal around and play too much with folks that I've not built enough of a relationship to do so. I sure didn't mean to mock or create animosity.
Respectfully,
Ryan

 

I have cracked open many a slab for the following reasons:

1) I don't like the way the coin, especially an ancient coin, is mounted in the slab, and I want to remove it to examine the entire edge - something that cannot be done while the coin is in the slab.

2) There is a clear error in the description of the coin on the slab. The coin needs to be remove as assigned a label with the correct information, and, by the way, I want to remove it anyways.

3) I want to put the coin into another mode of storage and display. For some coins I have used these coin frames that can be opened. They have mylar windows, so it is easy to view both sides. The only down side is that they are somewhat bulky and there is no easy way to attach a label. They are made basically to be stored in an individual box, with a label or labels. I do favor this method for coins of high relief or coins made of soft metal, such as gold.

4) The coin has clearly popped out one or more prong. This is a pretty significant problem with slabbed ancients, given their often irregular shaped flans, sometimes with varying thickness.

5) If the coin has been slabbed with active corrosion (this has happened), a 911 call is made and the coin is immediately removed and put into treatment, depending on the nature and severity of the corrosion.

6) I just want to remove the coin, devil may care about "resale value", to examine it, appreciate it, and to add my cooties to its patina or toning.

Here's an example of a coin that I put into a coin frame. It was never slabbed, probably because it is a rather common ancient, but the patina is so lovely, I decided to opt for the frame. Sliding it in and out of a plastic 2x2 flip was not an appealing prospect for this coin.

 

That's where I keep my coins, 'cept it's Coffee-Mate tubs for me.

 

You will sooner or later. Glad for you

 

Yeah. I was against you on that one. Night

 

I am also thinking of one day sending off my Odoacer nummus to be encapsulated. Not for authenticity because I have no doubts that it is real, but for its own protection. I live in a humid climate and I don’t want to one day find it developing bronze disease. Although I admit I do not know how effective slabs are in keeping the evil green away, assuming that a slabbed coin is BD-free at the moment of encapsulation.

 

AFAIK slabs do little to protect against bronze disease. I am not in favor of encapsulating an ancient coin, unless it is very valuable and there exists a possibility that you, or your family, might one day sell it. Experienced ancients collectors would not pay extra for an encapsulated coin, however, people other than experienced collectors buy coins. It is an individual choice.

 

Nope. Same coin, not slabbed, arguably worse condition than mine, brought more than twice as much yesterday on CNG:

Interestingly, no coins of this type appeared on the market for nearly a decade, and now two less than two weeks apart. Not a fresh find either.

 

Not only is it traditional NOT to slab ancients, but you will lose out on the joy of holding a piece of history in your hands. IMHO, plastic tombs don't convey the same sense of wonder.

 

I second that and I speak from experience. I usually avoid slabbed coins altogether, but the few I bought, I all broke out and I never regretted it. In fact, the real joy of owning them only accrued once I had removed the slabs.

 

I find that hard to believe, at least outside the US. I don't think that European collectors are by and large willing to pay extra for a plastic slab that they typically remove has to remove with the added risk of damaging the coin. Indeed, I found myself more than once not bidding on a coin, because it was slabbed.

 

It is free now and enjoying good company of old friends. Thanks everyone for discussion!

 

Why not? Ancient coins aren’t meant to be slabbed unlike US coins. Ancient coins can be handled because they don’t have the delicate, prooflike fields of modern US coins. Unlike US collectors, ancient collectors aren’t complaining about bag marks and fingerprints. Collecting ancient coins is more than just about grades. Other variables such as the “artistic style” of the dies, centering, planchet quality, and historical significance affect an ancient coins’s value. Ancient coins simply aren’t meant to be collected in registry sets unlike US coins. Considering that the vast majority of ancient coins aren’t slabbed, NGC population reports are an inaccurate measurement of rarity.

Besides, NGC doesn’t guarantee the authenticity of ancient coins and they don’t even attribute ancient coins properly. So NGC can attribute the VAM and Overton varieties of Morgan dollars and Bust halves but they can’t attribute the RIC varieties of Roman Imperial coins? It’s pointless to keep ancient coins inside the slabs if the “certification” offers no value or benefits. NGC is a great company for US coins but their service regarding ancients leaves much to be desired.

I collect both US coins and ancient coins. As a rule, I only buy my US coins slabbed but I purchase my ancient coins raw. I keep my US coins slabbed because it’s advantageous due to NGC’s guarantee regarding US coins. However, I don’t bother with slabbed ancient coins because NGC doesn’t guarantee the authenticity of ancient coins and they don’t really attribute them. There’s no point in slabbed ancients for me because I don’t see any inherent benefits in NGC certification of ancient coins. Major auction houses and reputable dealers attribute ancient coins and guarantee their authenticity for FREE.....

What I want in an ancient coin grading company is attribution and guarantee of authenticity, which NGC doesn’t do.

Since I collect both ancient coins and US coins, I understand the view points of both camps regarding slabs. I’d keep a DMPL MS67+ Morgan dollar in its slab because I don’t want to spoil its pristine mirrored surfaces with fingerprints and hairlines. But holding with your bare hands an ancient artifact such as silver denarius of Julius Caesar is worth it considering it survived being buried in the ground for over a millennium.

 

That’s incorrect, NGC doesn’t guarantee authenticity of ancients. Obviously NGC wouldn’t slab an ancient coin they think is fake but their guarantee only applies to the grade, not authenticity. The NGC guarantee of authenticity only applies to US coins and modern world coins.

 

Whether or not an ancient coin is slabbed won’t affect its value to an informed collector. The vast majority of ancient coins sold by auction houses such as CNG and Roma are raw coins. Heritage is one of the few auction houses that predominantly sell slabbed ancients. Keep in mind, ancient coin collectors aren’t focused on building registry sets unlike US coin collectors. Grade isn’t everything for ancient coins, as there are many more important variables than grade when valuing ancient coins. Ebay seems to be the only place in which slabbed ancients sell for more due to buyers being uninformed

 

Ah ha, I didn't know that.
But that's because I don't collect ancients, ergo I don't know how the TPG's treat them.

 

That's why I like CT soooooooooooo much, I get to find out about coins and things I have no knowledge of or might not (currently) collect.

 

Let's be honest.. Ancient coins in slabs (on average)cost more. After all, one is paying for a coin and the slab(and what it implies/entails).

I'd like to believe that I'm a savvy bargain-hunter. It's why I've yet to buy a slabbed coin. It's also one of the primary reasons, (despite looking at and bidding on quite a few), I've yet to win/buy any individual coins from Heritage Auctions. In my experience, the coins there often sell at auction for around 30-50% more for the same type/grade auctioned raw elsewhere. I believe this to be a combination of being a U.S. auction house(more desirable for domestic collectors), and that the coins on offer are majoritively slabbed. I find, I can get more 'bang for my buck' bidding/buying coins from other auction houses that deal in raw coins(such as CNG).

As for grading.. To me, a TPG means nothing with ancient coins.

It's pretty easy to discern the difference between a G, an F, a VF, an EF/XF, an AU and a MS coin. Sure one's gVF+(Ch) is another's aEF, much like an F sharp is the same as G flat.. but, it's all really one person's subjective opinion anyways.

In my experience, NGC's (numbered) grades for ancients are all over the map. I presume that their grading system is based upon other same type coins in comparison -- There are situations when (IMO) a 4 is graded a 5, and others when a 5 ought to be graded a 3, based on previous NGC gradings.

Look at enough coins, and it's pretty easy to discern what *Fine Style means, and when it applies to the devices of a coin.

What matters for me is: Do I like the coin? What is its numismatic interest? Does it have eye appeal for me?

I'm not buying individual coins $1,000+. My coins are going to have some issues -- What some might refer to as 'character', or 'honest wear'. They were made by hand, and they're millennia old for Jeebus' sake. I expect them to look like it.

In addition to circulation wear, my coins might be off-centered, weak strikes/old dies, encrustations/earthen deposits, scratches, corrosion/pitting, crystallization, cracks, in addition to many other so-called flan flaws.

I will state that there is a certain level to where an ancient coin could be considered an investment. If we're talking about individual coins that value in the 10s of thousands of dollars. Rare type coins that could be considered FdC or Mint State* 5/5 5/5 to the nth degree(finest known to exist). It then might make sense to have the coin in a hard capsule to protect it from potential damage that could injure it from the near-perfect state that has endured for 1000s of years. That stated, the coin doesn't have to be permanently encased. It ought to still be able to be removeable, and made possible to be handled.

As with anything, this is my own personal opinion on the matter. A collector is free to spend(or IMO overspend) extra on slabs for their collection to their own heart's desire. If slabs provide peace of mind for authenticity and/or confirmation of grade, then the extra premium for slabbing may be worth it. That's for the individual to decide for themselves.

If/When I ever do buy a slabbed coin, it will be broken out. I don't want to have to explain to someone that I'm showing my coins to why all but a few of my coins are in slabs, and that they aren't any more special than my raw coins.