To free or not to free?

Hey! I have the rare opportunity to disagree with Al!
Though, overall what you said makes sense, even if I disagree, I would hardly call enjoying holding a coin, getting a MUCH better look at it and removing waste neurotic. Where you the kid who kept all his toys in the box #freeGizmo

 

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TIF said it very well. At the limit I could accept slabbing a coin which sells for the price of a house but keeping a tiny bronze in a slab is a travesty. Set it free.

 

In my teen years I did, worked out well in the late 2000s when I sold the bulk of them & got much-needed house repairs done & a bit of it went into a new collection called ancient coins.

I still buy toy figures on occasion, few stays in the box, but most are loose and on display.

 

Slabbing modern coins appears to be the norm. It is expected and there are better reasons for it than for ancients. It can be pretty hard to tell one high grade Washington Quarter from another so if proof of someone's opinion of grade is the prime directive, then I guess the modern coin hobby must continue to submit to slabbing.

Slabbing ancient coins is not the norm, for the multitude of reasons discussed on CoinTalk over and over and over and over.

I'm an idiot for commenting in this thread in the first place when it's all been said before and having this discussion again just makes me sad.

 

Very great coin and please release.

Not forget we are talking about Provincial Roman. I see over 1500 Verus type on rpc online and about 95% do have less than 10 known...

 

First, here is the reverse of the coin:


Second, thank you all for the discussion! After reading the replies I tend to take it out, for few reasons. Having it in a slab does not allow me to put it in the holder with my other Hippos coins where it belongs. Also one cannot fully appreciate the quality and the details in the slab, that's particularly true for ancient coins where you would like to see the edge.
I see two advantages in slabing ancients. One is verification of authenticity, in many cases it is an important factor. I am actually planning to send my nummi of Basiliscus and Odovacar to NGC due to abundance of fakes on the market. Not applicable in this case, nobody will doubt the authenticity of this coin.
Second is to make the coin more attractive to investors and not specialist collectors. However, as it has been pointed in the discussion, investors are only looking at grade and not on the coin itself. This coin is only VF, pretty much crossing it out of their lists. For me, on the other hand, it is a top grade coin, better than one in Sofaer collection and one offered for sale today at Triton session 6. The slab doesn't really add value, I'd say the opposite - I got it on a certain slab friendly auction for about half I think it actually worth, and I am sure it's VF grade has been a factor there. Silver or gold in high grade is a different story of course.

 

How does it look nicer: with or without slab? #freelucius

 

I could watch that idiot for hours!

 

Nope you dope. Stupid is what stupid does. Thanks for giving us a look and to give our opinion before you decide. Good luck.

 

My favorite method, to remove a coin from a slab, is to use a hack saw, which is a thin metal saw, with lots of very small teeth. Don't try to use a regular wood saw, because the teeth aren't small enough, and the blade is too thick. I cut off the end of the slab, away from the coin, to keep plastic dust off of the coin. Then, I put a large screwdriver, into the cut end of the slab, near the edge of the slab, and twist the screwdriver, to pry apart the top of the slab, from the bottom of the slab. When you pry with the large screwdriver, you have to be careful, not to cause the top half, or bottom half, of the slab, to break, where the coin is, because that could scratch the coin. That's why I put the screwdriver, near the edge of the slab. You may have to work your way, around the edge of the slab, to gradually get the top of the slab, and the bottom of the slab, apart. Before I remove a coin from a slab, I always take photos, of both sides of the slab. That way, I can always refer to the NGC number, that was on the slab, in order to lookup photos of the coin, on the NGC web site.

 

Answer: NO. Ask yourself...and be honest (not to be answered here...just between you and yourself), why did you buy it slabbed in the first place...did you buy the coin at least partly because of the slab authentication of several factors by the TPG...that it was all the things it says it was/is...would you have believed the advertisement of all that from a stranger, a seller you didn't know/trust, without the reassurance of the coin's legitimacy from the TPG/slab info. for such a rare coin, etc...??? I dare say most would not have...I would not have, no way, etc. Keeping the label after crackout does nothing...you can never really link it to the coin other than your say-so, and wary, common-sense buyers (as they should be) won't buy that, literally or figuratively. To each their own, of course, but how will you ever convince another of the coin's rareness, et al...? Maybe just don't be so quick about it right now...think on it for a while...maybe even forget about it for now and come back to it later.

 

Unlike modern coins, every ancient coin looks different, because of variations in the flan shape, the die style, the die wear, the strike, and the coin wear. Therefore, for ancient coins, if one can lookup photos of the coin, on the NGC web site, using the NGC lookup number that was on the removed slab, then one can be pretty sure, that it is the same coin, which was authenticated (NGC doesn't guarantee authenticity for ancient coins, but it is a pretty good bet, that it is authentic) by NGC. For me, for ancient coins, slabs are good for only 1 thing : authentication. That's why, I remove my ancient coins, from the slab, but I keep the NGC lookup number.

 

Ryro, I didn't have a box to store my toys because there wasn't much to put in it . I grew up in a poor working class family that didn't shower their kids with toys, but that's beside the point. When I hear anti-slabbers make silly metaphors like "I want my coins to breath", that's why "I free them", I have to chuckle . If a collector honestly believes that his coins "breath", that sounds like a neurosis or something worse . I've heard some equally stupid remarks from anti-slabbers like "people buy slabbed ancient coins because they know nothing about them" . If members on this website believe I know nothing about ancient coins they are pompous, ignorant fools....

 

I'm not the OP, but let me take a stab at this...

It's a rare coin with fewer than 10 known. The last one sold (per ACsearch) was in 2013. It's not like the OP had dozens or hundreds to choose from. He had no say in the matter; the coin was already slabbed--because it was sold by Heritage, one of the few companies that stabs everything that can be slabbed. Slabbed ancients tend to be sold at venues not specializing in ancient coins (such as Great Collections) and/or whose primary customers collect moderns and are conditioned to expect slabs, and who are trying to get their modern-collecting customers (who are accustomed to paying comparatively huge money for cookie-cutter modern coins) to dip their toes into the ancient pool without the burden of research, other than comparing prices (and they provide the comparisons... to other slabbed coins, doing whatever they can to spoon-feed a new addict buyer ).

I can sometimes get highly interesting coins at a bargain price when they appear at venues not regularly browsed by the collectors of ancients, if they don't have Magic Letters. From my standpoint that has been the only good thing about slabbed ancients, since I mainly focus on provincials and on the whole, there are a lot of low grade but fantastic provincials out there.

As for reassurance of the coin's legitimacy, yes, NGC is certainly a trustworthy source of authentication even if they technically don't authenticate coins or guarantee authenticity. Barry Murphy and David Vagi are less likely than most to slab a fake. However, with some effort at learning about ancients and knowledge of resources, even casual collectors of ancients feel comfortable authenticating coins without paying for help. Perhaps slabbed coins are attractive to beginners or those who just don't have the time or inclination to learn how. Certainly there are instances where it is difficult, and then it might be worthwhile to seek an expert third party opinion such as from David Sear (no pesky sealed slabs), Harlan Berk (are they still offering authentication?), or NGC (even though they don't guarantee authenticity, if they slab a coin it means they believe it to be authentic).

Despite not liking slabs, I will certainly not hesitate to buy a slabbed coin if it something I want at a price I'm willing to pay. Removing the coin is not hard nor is it harmful to the coin... or to the value of the coin.

 

A lot to take in in this thread. I currently have no ancients…

 

Here, here @Al Kowsky I grew up low income as well. And certainly have heard some pretty funny statements on both sides. And do endorse slabbing ancients in certain contexts. Though, I do believe the phrase 'let the coins breath" is a figure of speech.

But I sure hope that you didn't take my jibe as saying you know nothing about ancients. I, and everyone that I am aware of on here, respect your knowledge, opinions and the threads that you take time to add here very much.
The term neurotic just seemed extreme.

 

Al, I want to make clear that I do not think you know nothing about ancient coins. You choose to slab them... I understand that. Your preference may not be mainstream, but it is your hobby, your choice.

 

I do not collect ancients, and I do agree that slabbed coins are the go-to coins for the moderns. and of course the TPG's are out-doing themselves with first releases, first strikes, specialty labels, emergency strikes, etc. since ms or pr 70 can only go so far. It all boils down to the owner of any coin to decide what he or she really wants to do. It seems to me that the OP feels he needs to take the coin out of the slab to be able to place it with other coins in his collection. But he is asking for the opinions of others who collect and have knowledge of ancients before he decides. Either way he has a truly beautiful ancient and I wish him the best no matter what he ends up doing.

 

How many slabbed ancient coins have you seen in a museum? How long have people been collecting ancient coins? What is the average life-span of a private company? (hint: the average age of companies listed on the S&P 500 is less than 18 years)

My point is that on a long enough timeline the TPGs we know today will be a memory and the vast majority of the ancient coins in slabs will be busted out and resold in whatever venue is the norm at the time. Putting things in cases that you can’t open is a pretty unnatural way to own things whether you like slabs or not. Ancient coins are individual pieces of art and don’t translate well to a 1-70 numbering system where the base assumption is that all other aspects except condition are the same.

My guess is that in the medium term provenance will become more important than a TPG authenticity opinion and slabs are not great in this regard as they often lead to the coin being separated from its ephemera and ending potential research opportunities. I have often wondered what the commoditization of ancient coins in the same way as modern coins would do to the regulatory environment. My guess is that it will not be good. In any case our coins will outlast regulations as well...

One could make a case that in the short term the resale value of a slabbed coin is higher but even that is not beyond debate... was I the only one watching Triton this year? It’s also debatable that you wouldn’t still see a bump just from retaining the tag.

I have a ton of respect for the numismatists at NGC. If they offered their authenticity opinion without the needless plastic I would be a HUGE fan. I could take or leave the grades but I recognize there is utility in pointing out specific issues such as tooling.

You are not an idiot. There are a lot of new members (and lurkers?) who may not have been around a few years ago to read the older conversations. Now there are more CTers who are outspoken that they like slabs and there is nothing wrong with this. At the same time it is important to reiterate the counter-argument to that point of view from time to time.

 

If I were you, I’d break it out and toss it in the coffee can with the rest of the collection.