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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Colonialjohn, post: 2093045, member: 57741&quot;]CoinChemistry 2012 -&nbsp; Although its my own fault here ... every collector regardless of his numismatic level has his own self training, inhibitions and therefore opinions. True I never disected NGC or PCGS in terms of a stereo microscope ... it could be seconds ... and probably most often its eye-balling the coin. But viewing a coin under a SM will always tell you if the surface has been played with ... I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Gurney and myself did discuss with a NGC supservisor some of the methods they use to grade coins at the recent Mexican Coin Conference is Scottsdale for counterfeit 8 Reales. Its a quick factory type operation - for sure. The cleaner I developed is strictly based on being safe on copper substrates. If you know who I am then this statement is obvious. I do not expect anyone to believe me ... the coin cleaning topic is IMPOSSIBLE in terms of teaching, changing peples minds, etc ... its always and always will be a merry-go-round of opinions. My formula is my own and its proprietary and I simply had the opportunity to create it. I do not blame you - for years even I believed there is no way to clean copper. Most experts go with xylol. Its good - but messy and takes time and the dirt in some ways just floats on the surface of the coin so you need to be MORE careful. Also CC2012 its a singular chemical, does not evaporate very well and has no built-in synthetic detergent system. Patina change does create a new look to the coin but as I said removing the green surficial verdigris - it&#039;s worth it - each coin is a case by case scenario - of course. I do use it on silver since it has no effect and it does well to remove the coloration of that 5% Cu on silver type alloys. &lt;VVBG&gt;.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>John Lorenzo</p><p>Numismatist</p><p>United States[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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