To CAC or not to CAC - official game thread

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    My take on this (as far as me) he is another opinion / particular taste. You can empower him all you want send him your money, risk your material in the mail back and forth. It’s your money your project. When say stickered coins go bad in holder, toning becomes darker or whatever (reaction with heat, humidity, salt air, atmosphere) what then?

    Certainly beaned coins in many instances gone for multiples of price guides. Plus big ticket coins the pressure on as far as the sticker process.

    I had an eBay $50 purchase shipped to me tracking said delivered at my locked mailbox it not there - now I have to go to po ask them where is it. Or get postal inspector involved. Have not had prob on incoming shipment in over 20-25 years. What if that were $500 item or much larger shipment? This really burns me up.....

    The thread definitely has been an eye opener on problems which may not be obvious to one and a substantial risk on big ticket material.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
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  3. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    On the 15-s pan pac MS66 50c CDN bid 1400 / 1850 CAC. MV wb abt bid plus 25pct.

    For Classic Commems a CAC premium kicks in for grades MS64 and above.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  4. Juno

    Juno Active Member

    1939D 10C PCGS MS68+FB
    3994EFA6-A3B1-402B-9BF3-EA1C75956AFE.jpeg 99301520-736E-4A74-B685-52CF5AD9D01A.jpeg
  5. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    Pretty coin but I think the grade is generous after noticing the numerous nicks in the reverse field. I'll say no to the CAC since I think this is a MS 67 coin.
    CamaroDMD likes this.
  6. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Seems like a Legend type of coin and for that reason I'm guessing it is a Green sticker
  7. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    This is going to sound very counterintuitive, but surface preservation means less at this level. Often times the difference between an MS67 FB and an MS68 FB or even MS69 FB Mercury Dime isn't the surfaces at all. This coin is a good example. By your evaluation, it has what you consider MS67 surfaces. But the combination of incredible toning, superb luster, and the resultant eye appeal is what separates a coin like this from an untoned MS67 FB Mercury Dime.

    For that reason, I say this coin has a green bean.
    thomas mozzillo and wxcoin like this.
  8. GoldBug999

    GoldBug999 Well-Known Member

    I agree with wxcoin, the nicks on the reverse kick it down to an MS67. I agree with Lehigh96 about the superb toning, luster and eye appeal, but I thought CAC only stickers coins that are high-end or solid for the assigned grade. So I'll say no bean, and probably find out later it has a gold sticker.
    wxcoin likes this.
  9. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Green cac on the merc. A beauty
  10. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    Yes on the bean. Lehigh96 said it best.
  11. jom

    jom Well-Known Member

    Going to go Green.

    This is a coin from that hoard of 39-D dimes that hit the market in the mid-90s. I remember Pinnicle selling an MS69 for $5000 or some such. I tried to find a nice MS67 that wasn't absurdly price to no avail.

    I finally bought an MS68FB in an ICG holder which I eventually had the guts to crack. PCGS came back MS68FB so I got lucky...made a ton on that one (which is a rarity for me).

    wxcoin and ddddd like this.
  12. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    No to CAC on 1939-D PCGS MS68+FB dime. CF on it is $2650. Toning starting to darken, will get worse as time goes on.

    Would want get rid of it, invest that money in Classic Commems ms64-66 which about 10-15c on dollar vs 1989.

    Common date - you can get a nice 66fb for $65.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  13. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Any more guesses before @Juno reveals it?
  14. Juno

    Juno Active Member

    The 3 NOs prevail. I found this coin in a so-called NEWPS box of slabs of a high volume dealer (not Legend) at one of the Baltimore shows. It immediately caught my eye. Along with all my other non-stickered slabs, I submitted it to CAC. I was stunned that it was passed. JA said that for a merc dime to be graded 68, it needs to be flawless. As the 3 commentators see, there are tiny nicks/abrasions. Still a beautiful coin, but way over graded by PCGS. I sold it.
  15. jom

    jom Well-Known Member

    I'll go again.

    PCGS VF-30


    ddddd likes this.
  16. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years Supporter

    Nice looking 1805. I'll say no bean to be consistent with a couple similar ones posted earlier that were rejected.
  17. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I'll update summary info after this round.

    I see what look to be adjustment marks and a spot in the hair. I'm not sure how CAC views this. I also think this one might have an old cleaning and retoning. It's a nice coin but taking all that into account, I will say NO Sticker.
  18. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I am gonna assume those are adjustment marks and say yes to the green bean.
  19. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    It looks like a solid 30 to 35 to me. I don't know how JA looks at adjustment marks but my guess is that he would turn up his nose, therefore no bean.

    Here's my thinking:

    - The bean is awarded on the judgement of the coin being an A or B example of the TPG grade.
    - The TPG grade is a market grade, thus the bean is awarded on the basis of a judgement of the coin's likelihood of bringing an A or B price in the market.
    - Adjustment marks supposedly do not act against a coin's grade but we know that they must since adjustment marked coins typically bring less money than their unmarked siblings.
    - This coin looks like a solid 30 (edging to 35) to me so the TPG does not appear to have down-graded it for the adjustment marks, unless the TPG thought it was a 35 and dinged it for the adjustment marks.
    - Therefore, an adjustment marked coin that is otherwise solidly graded must be a C coin.

    There are a lot of assumptions and perhaps erroneous conclusions in that train of thought so let me add a couple of more reasons why I think it didn't get a bean:

    1) Old cleaning and retoning which I understand JA usually doesn't like but sometimes makes exceptions.
    2) What appears to be damage to the shield (could be dirt, photograph, etc but I'm assuming there is some non-Details damage there).

    All that said, this coin has a lot of eye appeal and I would be happy to have it, bean or not. So send it to me when this round is over!
    ddddd likes this.
  20. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Great analysis @Publius2 covered a lot of my concerns and even more beyond to see if we are right or way off. :p
  21. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Pretty, but the cleaning is too obvious. No bean.
    Magnus87 likes this.
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