To CAC or not to CAC - official game thread

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. GoldBug999

    GoldBug999 Well-Known Member

    I'll say no bean. The coin has features that look like AU-50 - the feathers on the reverse and the stars on the obverse.
     
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  3. jom

    jom Well-Known Member

    Well, that should be enough time. The coin FAILED at CAC. The reasoning is not the grade (the coin had good luster which you can kind of see in the photo...around the stars). I was told it was the "cleaned long ago" thing that JA uses when discussing why some earlier series fail at CAC. You can kind of see it in face and around the obverse. Obviously, the coin retoned over time.

    I've mentioned this before but with circulated material failures are often (not always) due to the cleanings rather than grade like MS pieces.

    jom
     
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  4. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Rd. 1: 1921 MS 65 Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 4 vs No: 3

    Rd. 2: 1835 AU 50 Green CAC 50c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 8

    Rd. 3: 1939-S Oregon MS 65 Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 (8 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 4: 1838 AU 58 Green CAC (Gold $5)--> Yes: 1 vs No: 5

    Rd. 5: 1908 MS 63 Green CAC (Gold $20)—> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 6: 1885-CC MS 63 PL Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 7: 1946-S MS 66 Green CAC Walker 50c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 8: 1885-S MS 62 NOT CAC Morgan--> Yes: 5 (4 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 9: 1830 EF 45 UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 10*: 1899 MS 65 BN UNKNOWN CAC 1c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 5

    Rd. 11: 1942 MS 65 Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 4 (4 Green and 0 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 12: 1940-D MS 67 Star UNKNOWN CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 13*: 1884-O MS 61 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 9 (4 Green and 5 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 14: 1827 AU 55 CAC 10c--> Yes: 1 vs No: 7

    Rd. 15: 1851 MS 66 CAC 1c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 4

    Rd. 16: 1919-S MS 65 Green CAC 10c--> Yes: 12 (11 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 17: 1922 MS 65 NOT CAC Peace $1--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 18: 1851 Au 58+ CAC 1/2C--> Yes: 0 vs No: 6

    Rd. 19: 1839-O AU 53 NO CAC 50c--> Yes: 6 (5 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 3

    Rd. 20: 1920 MS 65 NO CAC 25c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 6

    Rd. 21: 1862 PF 64 CAC H10c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 22: 1869 PF 63 Gold CAC 10c--> Yes: 7 (5 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 23: 1834 XF 45 CAC $5--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 24: 1835 XF 40 CAC 25c--> Yes: 8 (7 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 25: 1876 MS 62 Not CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 26: 1853 MS 64 Not CAC 10c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 0

    Rd. 27: 1913 MS 62 CAC 2.5 Gold--> Yes: 1 vs No: 5

    Rd. 28: 1835 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 7

    Rd. 29: 1908-S MS 64 CAC 1c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 2

    Rd. 30: 1913-D MS 66+ CAC 5c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 0

    Rd. 31: 1829 AU 55 NOT CAC 5c--> Yes: 11 vs No: 1

    Rd. 32: 1851 MS 61 CAC 2.5 Gold--> Yes: 4 (3 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 33: 1936-D MS 66 GOLD CAC 5c--> Yes: 3 (3 Green) vs No: 2

    Rd. 34: 1941-S AU 55 NOT CAC 10c--> Yes: 11 (2 Green and 9 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 35: 1924 MS 66 CAC 25c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 36: 1936-D MS 67 Texas UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 37: 1928 MS 66 Oregon UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 0

    Rd. 38: 1893 MS 64 Isabella CAC 25c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 9

    Rd. 39: 1820 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 7

    Rd. 40: 1881-S MS 65 CAC $1--> Yes: 7 (3 Green and 4 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 41: 1940 PR 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 0

    Rd. 42: 1824 AU 50 CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 43: 1937 Texas MS 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 2

    Rd. 44: 1903 PR 63 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 1

    Rd. 45: 1857 MS 64 CAC 10c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 6

    Rd. 46: 1828 MS 62 CAC 10c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 47: 1958 MS 67 FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 1 vs No: 9

    Rd. 48: 1902 PR 64 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 49: 1832 AU 58 CAC 1/2c--> Yes: 5 (1 gold) vs No: 4

    Rd. 50: 1902 PF 61 CAC 25c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 2

    Rd. 51: 1953-D MS 66+ FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 52: 1880 MS 64 CAC $1--> Yes: 3 vs No: 2

    Rd. 53: 1882-CC MS 62 CAC $1--> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 54: 1892 MS 64 Columbian CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 0

    Rd. 55: 1895-O VF 20 CAC $1--> Yes: 1 vs No: 6

    Rd. 56: 1880-O MS 64 Not CAC $1--> Yes: 11 vs No: 0

    Rd. 57: 1954 PF 65 CAM Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 (7 Green and 0 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 58: 1879-S MS 65 CAC $1--> Yes: 5 vs No: 2

    Rd. 59: 1949 MS 66+ FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 5

    Rd. 60: 1880-S MS 66 PL Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 5 vs No: 7

    Rd. 61: 1936 MS 67+ Green CAC York 50c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 5

    Rd. 62: 1823/2 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 6 vs No: 3

    Rd. 63: 1920 MS 65 CAC Pilgrim 50c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 4

    Rd. 64: 1901/0-S XF 45 GOLD CAC Gold $5--> Yes: 7 (5 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 65: 1937-D Texas MS 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 12 vs No: 1

    Rd. 66: 1829 AU 55 CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 2

    Rd. 67: 1859 PR 62 Gold CAC H10c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 68: 1883-O MS 62 CAC $1--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 69: 1818 AU 50 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 70: 1828 F 12 NOT CAC 25c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 1

    Rd. 71: 1882-S MS 67 Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 4 vs No: 2

    Rd. 72: 1879 PR 65 CAM Green CAC 3CN--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 73: 1809 XF 40 CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 (4 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 4

    Rd. 74: 1879-S MS 64 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 10 (9 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 75: 1831 AU 58 CAC 50c--> Yes: 6 (4 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 76: 1925 MS 64 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 9 (3 Green and 6 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 77: 1821 AU 55 NOT CAC 10c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 2

    Green CAC on coin and deserves it: 29
    Green CAC on coin and doesn't deserve it: 19
    Gold CAC on coin and deserves it: 2
    Gold CAC on coin but should only be Green: 8
    Gold CAC on coin but should not sticker:
    Failed to sticker but deserves a sticker: 12
    Failed to sticker and should not sticker: 2
    Unknown sticker status and deserves a sticker:3
    Unknown sticker status and does not deserve a sticker:2


    Note: if we don’t know the status of a coin before the reveal and more people say green CAC for a gold CAC coin, then it will go in the area of “Gold CAC on coin but should only be Green” ....see round 3 as the example case

    *
    Rd. 10 was 4-4...I interpreted that CircCam would consider it a no (based on a similar example), which swayed the overall vote to a lean towards no.
    Rd. 13 was tied between green and gold at 4-4...I interpreted that geekpryde would consider it a gold
     
  5. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Do you feel it has been consistent with coins like this one in terms of failing CAC for being cleaned long ago? Or is it a toss-up if it will pass?
     
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  6. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    For educational purposes, I would appreciate it if you would point out where the cleaning is obvious, because, I can't tell from the photos. Thank you :)
     
  7. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Only in the color and lack of crud. Was dipped many years ago and put in an album likely a Wayte Raymond coin board from the 30s to 50s which cause this beautiful album toning. Surfaces untouched for 75 or so years but not strictly original. I find sometimes cac approves these sometimes no. And to really tell you almost have to see in hand
     
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  8. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Here’s one for you pcgs au 55 cac or no E210840B-6FD1-4978-A12A-F4F9B45854A5.jpeg 20A4B2BC-B336-4A90-B1FB-911C370C1239.jpeg
     
  9. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

  10. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years

    I just picked my last green beans from the garden so I'll follow along with a green bean.
     
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  11. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    Green on 1874-cc Trade Dollar AU55
     
  12. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    I'll say Green
     
  13. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

  14. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Nice and original, yet maybe a bit dark and not an overabundance of luster for the grade....my gut is saying no sticker.
     
  15. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you for your reply. :)
     
  16. Brian Livesey

    Brian Livesey Member

    I say no CAC sticker on the trade dollar and for that half dime, I can see why. He doesn't like certain colors that would/can be caused by an old cleaning. I've had a few nice toned copper pieces that didn't pass, but were pretty spot on with the grade.
     
  17. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    Jom I saw where a CAC piece on the 1821 PCGS 55 (CDN CPG) 10c went for around $1500 (assuming it’s right one of the 2 varieties)about 50 pct over cpg. But it looked like crap vs the one here which is really nice looking. PCGs did not see a problem w yours - me - I would go w pcgs opinion on it forget about his.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  18. Juno

    Juno Member

    I vote green bean on the trade dollar, assuming the luster is apparent through the dark toning, which the photo doesn’t allow us to assess.
     
  19. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Ok I’ll call this one. No bean on the trade
     
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  20. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years

    You could have lied to make me feel better.
     
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  21. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Rd. 1: 1921 MS 65 Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 4 vs No: 3

    Rd. 2: 1835 AU 50 Green CAC 50c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 8

    Rd. 3: 1939-S Oregon MS 65 Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 (8 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 4: 1838 AU 58 Green CAC (Gold $5)--> Yes: 1 vs No: 5

    Rd. 5: 1908 MS 63 Green CAC (Gold $20)—> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 6: 1885-CC MS 63 PL Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 7: 1946-S MS 66 Green CAC Walker 50c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 8: 1885-S MS 62 NOT CAC Morgan--> Yes: 5 (4 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 9: 1830 EF 45 UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 10*: 1899 MS 65 BN UNKNOWN CAC 1c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 5

    Rd. 11: 1942 MS 65 Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 4 (4 Green and 0 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 12: 1940-D MS 67 Star UNKNOWN CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 13*: 1884-O MS 61 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 9 (4 Green and 5 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 14: 1827 AU 55 CAC 10c--> Yes: 1 vs No: 7

    Rd. 15: 1851 MS 66 CAC 1c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 4

    Rd. 16: 1919-S MS 65 Green CAC 10c--> Yes: 12 (11 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 17: 1922 MS 65 NOT CAC Peace $1--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 18: 1851 Au 58+ CAC 1/2C--> Yes: 0 vs No: 6

    Rd. 19: 1839-O AU 53 NO CAC 50c--> Yes: 6 (5 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 3

    Rd. 20: 1920 MS 65 NO CAC 25c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 6

    Rd. 21: 1862 PF 64 CAC H10c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 22: 1869 PF 63 Gold CAC 10c--> Yes: 7 (5 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 23: 1834 XF 45 CAC $5--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 24: 1835 XF 40 CAC 25c--> Yes: 8 (7 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 25: 1876 MS 62 Not CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 26: 1853 MS 64 Not CAC 10c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 0

    Rd. 27: 1913 MS 62 CAC 2.5 Gold--> Yes: 1 vs No: 5

    Rd. 28: 1835 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 7

    Rd. 29: 1908-S MS 64 CAC 1c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 2

    Rd. 30: 1913-D MS 66+ CAC 5c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 0

    Rd. 31: 1829 AU 55 NOT CAC 5c--> Yes: 11 vs No: 1

    Rd. 32: 1851 MS 61 CAC 2.5 Gold--> Yes: 4 (3 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 33: 1936-D MS 66 GOLD CAC 5c--> Yes: 3 (3 Green) vs No: 2

    Rd. 34: 1941-S AU 55 NOT CAC 10c--> Yes: 11 (2 Green and 9 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 35: 1924 MS 66 CAC 25c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 36: 1936-D MS 67 Texas UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 37: 1928 MS 66 Oregon UNKNOWN CAC 50c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 0

    Rd. 38: 1893 MS 64 Isabella CAC 25c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 9

    Rd. 39: 1820 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 7

    Rd. 40: 1881-S MS 65 CAC $1--> Yes: 7 (3 Green and 4 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 41: 1940 PR 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 0

    Rd. 42: 1824 AU 50 CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 43: 1937 Texas MS 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 2

    Rd. 44: 1903 PR 63 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 9 vs No: 1

    Rd. 45: 1857 MS 64 CAC 10c--> Yes: 2 vs No: 6

    Rd. 46: 1828 MS 62 CAC 10c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 1

    Rd. 47: 1958 MS 67 FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 1 vs No: 9

    Rd. 48: 1902 PR 64 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 49: 1832 AU 58 CAC 1/2c--> Yes: 5 (1 gold) vs No: 4

    Rd. 50: 1902 PF 61 CAC 25c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 2

    Rd. 51: 1953-D MS 66+ FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 4

    Rd. 52: 1880 MS 64 CAC $1--> Yes: 3 vs No: 2

    Rd. 53: 1882-CC MS 62 CAC $1--> Yes: 5 vs No: 1

    Rd. 54: 1892 MS 64 Columbian CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 vs No: 0

    Rd. 55: 1895-O VF 20 CAC $1--> Yes: 1 vs No: 6

    Rd. 56: 1880-O MS 64 Not CAC $1--> Yes: 11 vs No: 0

    Rd. 57: 1954 PF 65 CAM Gold CAC 50c--> Yes: 7 (7 Green and 0 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 58: 1879-S MS 65 CAC $1--> Yes: 5 vs No: 2

    Rd. 59: 1949 MS 66+ FBL CAC 50c--> Yes: 3 vs No: 5

    Rd. 60: 1880-S MS 66 PL Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 5 vs No: 7

    Rd. 61: 1936 MS 67+ Green CAC York 50c--> Yes: 4 vs No: 5

    Rd. 62: 1823/2 AU 58 CAC 10c--> Yes: 6 vs No: 3

    Rd. 63: 1920 MS 65 CAC Pilgrim 50c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 4

    Rd. 64: 1901/0-S XF 45 GOLD CAC Gold $5--> Yes: 7 (5 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 2

    Rd. 65: 1937-D Texas MS 66 CAC 50c--> Yes: 12 vs No: 1

    Rd. 66: 1829 AU 55 CAC 50c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 2

    Rd. 67: 1859 PR 62 Gold CAC H10c--> Yes: 7 (6 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 1

    Rd. 68: 1883-O MS 62 CAC $1--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 69: 1818 AU 50 NOT CAC 50c--> Yes: 10 vs No: 1

    Rd. 70: 1828 F 12 NOT CAC 25c--> Yes: 7 vs No: 1

    Rd. 71: 1882-S MS 67 Green CAC Morgan--> Yes: 4 vs No: 2

    Rd. 72: 1879 PR 65 CAM Green CAC 3CN--> Yes: 2 vs No: 5

    Rd. 73: 1809 XF 40 CAC 50c--> Yes: 5 (4 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 4

    Rd. 74: 1879-S MS 64 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 10 (9 Green and 1 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 75: 1831 AU 58 CAC 50c--> Yes: 6 (4 Green and 2 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 76: 1925 MS 64 Gold CAC $1--> Yes: 9 (3 Green and 6 Gold) vs No: 0

    Rd. 77: 1821 AU 55 NOT CAC 10c--> Yes: 8 vs No: 2

    Rd. 78: 1874-CC AU 55 NOT CAC Trade $1--> Yes: 5 vs No: 3

    Green CAC on coin and deserves it: 29
    Green CAC on coin and doesn't deserve it: 19
    Gold CAC on coin and deserves it: 2
    Gold CAC on coin but should only be Green: 8
    Gold CAC on coin but should not sticker:
    Failed to sticker but deserves a sticker: 13
    Failed to sticker and should not sticker: 2
    Unknown sticker status and deserves a sticker:3
    Unknown sticker status and does not deserve a sticker:2


    Note: if we don’t know the status of a coin before the reveal and more people say green CAC for a gold CAC coin, then it will go in the area of “Gold CAC on coin but should only be Green” ....see round 3 as the example case

    *
    Rd. 10 was 4-4...I interpreted that CircCam would consider it a no (based on a similar example), which swayed the overall vote to a lean towards no.
    Rd. 13 was tied between green and gold at 4-4...I interpreted that geekpryde would consider it a gold
     
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