Featured Titus and the Bull

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Parthicus Maximus, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    I have been looking for a nice Titus for a while. I saw this denarius in a recent Catawiki auction. I was immediately interested mainly because of the combination of the depicted emperor and reverse. However, I had never participated in auctions before this purchase. I don't like it because you are constantly losing coins that you have been looking forward to. And the honesty area to say that my budget is also not sufficient for all auction fees. You also quickly pay more than you want (I experienced it).

    My idea was to make a bid in the last two minutes, which I did. I expected that no one would go over it because my bid was fairly high (for the state of the coin). However, I was immediately outbid. I decided to make a final offer. And that turned out to be enough for my first auction acquisition
    .

    4afc6194-715a-4a16-80dc-e5bc6224d62a.jpg
    T CAESAR IMP VESPASIAN
    laureate head right
    COS V
    bull standing right

    Titus Caesar 69-79
    AR Denarius
    Struck 76
    2,77g/18mm
    Ric 858 (Vespasian) (R)

    There is debate about the significance of the reverse of this coin. Mattingly thought that the reverse depicted a statue of the cow of Myron in the new Temple of Peace only that is quite problematic since some coins of this type (including this one) clearly show that we are dealing with a bull. An explanation could be that we are dealing here with a statue of the Apis Bull, which was recently erected in Rome, perhaps even at the Temple of Peace. Personally it seems a bit unlikely. The question is, what does the reverse mean? should it be seen as an early agricultural type? but what good is a bull on the land? Not the first animal you think of when you want to portray agriculture.

    When you look at the scarce sources about the Flavian period. There is something remarkable to be found in the short biography of Titus by Suetonius.


    This aroused the suspicion that he had tried to revolt from his father and make himself king of the East; and he strengthened this suspicion on his way to Alexandria by wearing a diadem at the consecration of the bull Apis in Memphis, an act quite in accord with the usual ceremonial of that ancient religion, but unfavourably interpreted by some.

    Suetonius, life of Titus (5,3)

    What does this quote mean? I don't think Titus really wanted to be king over the east. However, the source shows that Titus was at least interested in the Apis bull. This Egyptian deity, worshiped for centuries, was the Egyptian god of the Kings and fertility. We do not know how much influence Titus had on his own coins, but if we look at the freedom of Domitian's reverses, Titus must have had something to say. However, the type also appeared for Vespasian. I think it mainly wants to emphasize the royal status of Vespasian and Titus. Moreover, it also copies a Denarius of Augustus, so ideal Flavian propaganda. So the coin shows the Apis bull, I think, but it does not refer to a specific statue.

    Please, show your favorite Titus coins.

    Do not let it go when you have a different theory or replenishment for the significance of the reverse.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My favorites are the Eastern mint denarius ("o" mintmark) with bull
    rb1340bb0991.jpg

    and the Rome mint sow with two little pigs.
    rb1345fd3310.jpg
     
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  4. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Nice, here's mine for Vespasian

    Vespasian_Bull.jpg

    IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG
    Laureate head right.

    COS VII
    Bull standing right.

    Rome, 76 AD.

    3.21g

    RIC II 841 (C)

    Scarce
     
  5. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    That's a nice Titus bull!

    And you are correct in pointing out the type copies one struck under Augustus. The specific meaning wasn't important, the connection to Augustus was!
     
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  6. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Coingrats on the fantastic Titus! Worthy coin to get at first auction.
    I took sometime as well to utilize auction houses. However, the experience provided by the good auction houses being so much more consistent, having much more pride in their quality and most important reliable than anything else out there right now.
    upload_2020-1-20_18-31-40.gif

    I've always been a Tit-us-man. What would've been? And, how much can go wrong in a two year reign?? Vesuvius anyone???
    Here's my favs so far from early career: FBF1E76D-3D18-4D62-826C-C0679FF76480.jpeg BE1C372F-CDFC-4F9F-8F73-3C22551CB27E.png
     
  7. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Both are nice coins. But that 'O' mint Denarius is in one word impressive. Is there more information about which mint this was?
     
  8. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    That's a nice one @Jay GT4!
     
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  9. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your response David. I find the relationship between Augustus coins and that of the Flavians very interesting. Do you know publications on this subject?
     
  10. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    Beautiful ‘Titus and the bull’ coin.
    This is my ‘Titus and the oxen’ coin :)

    04095F00-9984-435C-953C-DA03E77142C1.png

    Titus, denarius.
    RIC 951, RSC 67.
    Rome Mint, 77-78 AD.
    18 mm 2.84 gr.
    Obv. T CAESAR IMP VESPASIANVS, laureate head right.
    Rev. COS VI in exergue; Yoke of oxen walking left.
     
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  11. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your response @Ryro. Nice Titus coins. I don't know if I will use auctions frequently, but you are right that most quality and rare coins are offered at auction houses. I am only so annoyed by the 20% buyer fee at most auctions:rage:
     
  12. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Nice coin @Marsman!
    Is it true that you are the owner of Romeinsemunt.nl? I saw some of your coins there too.
     
  13. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    I love the Titus @Parthicus Maximus . I have not added one of these to my Flavian collection...yet. The portrait is quite nice. Congrats on adding this one to your collection.
     
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  14. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your response Andrew. I also love the portrait, which is somehow less worn out than the rest of the coin. The coin arrived this afternoon and is nicer in hand than the photo shows. Whenever I have the time I will take a better photo, but the coming days I will not be home during the day.

    Where it is about the lack of this type in your Flavian collection. I will pay attention if I see one for sale. If you are looking for more specific types, let me know. I would like to help you.
     
  15. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    Yep that’s my blog. Nice that you have noticed this.
     
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  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    'Vespasian as Moneyer' by T. V. Buttrey. It even has a neat chart showing which types were recycled.
     
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  17. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    One of my favorites is this As of Titus commemorating his victory in the Jewish war. I fell for the Tiber patina.
    Also presented, a Dupondius / FELICITAS with emerald green patina , denarius with reverse wreath on curule chairs , and an aureus / Roma reverse. And denarius with caduceus.



    z51441.jpg 4948728l.jpg 3grARQi47zmCDZe6t9TiPy8RJHp52E.jpg 1077AUVESLG.jpg
    Fzs876LnTqw75eCCmKP32zHjFB4qN9.jpg
     
  18. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Thanks for the offer. I would like to add one of these. If you do see one I would appreciate a heads up.

    Here are a few of my favourite coins of Titus.
    RIC 89
    Titus ric 89.jpg
    RIC 103
    Titus ric 103 Gorny und Mosch.JPG
    RIC 554 [VESP]
    Titus RIC 554.jpg
    RIC 784 [VESP]
    Titus RIC 784 new.jpg
    RIC 1
    Titus RIC 1 new.jpg

    RIC 950 [VESP]
    titus ric 950.jpg

    RIC 695 [VESP]
    Titus RIC 695.jpg
     
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  19. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    All are great coins @octavius! My favorites are your great Roma Aureus and that Caduceus Denarius for the lovely toning.
     
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  20. Parthicus Maximus

    Parthicus Maximus Well-Known Member

    Those are very nice coins. Your Ric 554 is my favorite. the portrait is beautiful. Titus also looks like a combination of himself and his father on that coin. I also love your British victory denarius, it's a type I'd also like to add to my collection.

    And let the bull hunt begin ;)
     
  21. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Very nice example, @Parthicus Maximus. Here's the Augustan type.

    Augustus - Denarius Bull 3465.jpg AUGUSTUS
    AR Denarius. 3.23g, 20.1 x 17.2mm. Pergamum or Samos mint, circa 21-20 BC. RIC I 475; RSC 28. O: CAESAR, bare head right. R: AVGVSTVS, bull standing right.
     
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