Tiny Punic bronze, attribution questions

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by TIF, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I could use some help with proper attribution of this coin.

    Apparently the books most likely to help are Burgos, A. La moneda hispanica desde sus origenes hasta el siglo V. (Madrid, 2008) and Villaronga, Leandre. Corpus Nvmmvm Hispaniae Anti Avgvsti Aetatem. (Madrid: Jose A. Herrero, S.A.; 1994), which I do not have and since I only have a couple of coins from that part of the ancient world, are not high on my to-buy list.

    (seller's picture)
    CarthagoNovaAE12ha.jpg
    The seller has attributed it thusly:

    ZEUGITANIA. Carthage. Æ 12mm (1.91 gm). Carthago Nova, ca. 221-218 BC. Wreathed head of Tanit left / Crested Thracian helmet left. CNH 69, 46. Extremely rare. Earthen green patina. Very Fine.

    Elsewhere (coinproject) the attribution of a nearly identical issue is written as:

    City : Barcids in Spain
    Metal : Bronze
    Denomination : Ae 13
    Struck / Cast : struck
    Date Struck : 220 - 215 BC
    Diameter : 12.4 mm
    Weight : 1.404 g
    Die Axis : 6 h
    Obverse Description : Head of Tanit left
    Reverse Description : Helmet
    Primary Reference : CNH pg. 69, 46
    Reference2 : Burgos 524


    ...and the seller of that coinproject coin (from Forvm) as:

    Carthaginians in Spain, 220-215 BC, Bronze AE 13, Burgos p. 22 # 125, VF, dark green patina, Carthago Nova mint, weight 1.404g, maximum diameter 12.4mm, die axis 180o, 220 - 215 B.C.; obverse head of Tanit left; reverse helmet

    I do not see it listed as being a Zeugitana issue on http://www.magnagraecia.nl/coins/Punic_map/Zeugitana_map/Zeugitana.html so am inclined to think it is from Carthago Nova, not Zeugitana.

    Heritage (from whom I bought it) puts it under the heading of Zeugitana, Carthage, with the same primary reference as the second coin mentioned above.

    I am therefore confused. Can any of you help clarify this?

    And if it is from Spain rather than Zeugitana, what is the correct way to write this, if there even is a correct way? I've seen several variations:

    Iberia, Punic Iberia.
    Spain, Punic Spain.
    Carthaginians in Spain.
    Barcids in Spain.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    Eng, kaparthy, chrsmat71 and 3 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

    Simple: Heritage is wrong. They're apparently following the scholarship of CNH, which, to my knowledge, is not widely accepted.

    With regards to the "correct" way to write the description, all of those effectively say the same thing. My preference is SPAIN, Punic Spain.
     
    TIF likes this.
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Thanks for the help, Ardatirion!

    And in case anyone was wondering why I would buy something I didn't fully understand... I knew it was Punic and I wanted it because I now have an example of the largest and the smallest Punic bronze coins issued. And that makes me smile.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    stevex6 likes this.
  5. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    TIF smile.jpg

    => congrats, TIF ... (I admit that it feels awesome when your collection comes together, eh?)
     
    TIF likes this.
  6. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I love getting coins I don;t understand :D

    Neat addition btw!
     
    TIF likes this.
  7. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    if i'm not spending much money, a mystery coin can be lots of fun. i've learned quite a bit today research a couple coins i received that i didn't know anything about.
     
    TIF likes this.
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Agree-- mystery lots/coins are wonderful but I like to keep those in the $10-15 range. Speaking of, I should have a couple of mystery lots arriving Tuesday (fingers crossed that there are no further delays)
     
  9. kaparthy

    kaparthy Well-Known Member

    Us, too! Care to show them paired?
     
  10. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Absolutely!! I don't have this tiny one yet, not sure if they've even mailed it. Haven't received a shipping notice, so that means it will be sometime next week before it arrives. But I certainly intend to photograph the two together and will post them here.

    Meanwhile, allow me to show the other half of the equation (yet again), my 95 gm bronze Peanut Butter Cup. :D Zeugitana, Carthage, 15 shekel, 45 mm.

    (pictures are still not to my satisfaction, will keep trying)

    Carthage15shekelWhiteSmEd.jpg
    ZeugRevAndSideHansSmall.jpg
     
  11. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Definitely have to be cheap for me too. Heres a few mystery coins I've gotten. Been able to i d 2 of em

    edit: I'll put the ones I don't know as a full mage

    12335_548147701888812_1010131742_n.jpg

    37009p00.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    • 00111.JPG
      00111.JPG
      File size:
      103.7 KB
      Views:
      200
    • 029.JPG
      029.JPG
      File size:
      59.7 KB
      Views:
      207
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    vlaha, TIF and chrsmat71 like this.
  12. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    I think that last coin may be a Seleucid coin RG...not sure.
    What the heck is the second "waffle" coin???
     
  13. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I havent fully figured it out yet.
     
  14. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Interesting iconography on that first one, RG.
    WaffleMario.jpg
     
    vlaha, zumbly, stevex6 and 1 other person like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page