Tiberius Tribute Penny

Thank you Ray! I'm excited to share with everyone my best coins. It'll take awhile since I have almost 40 now (yes I need to stop).

 

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If you are interested in fourrees as a subject, you might enjoy my series of pages on them BUT I warn not to pay much for fourrees since may collectors will not touch them and they should bring a lot less even if they are not ugly (as many are due to peeling of the silver).

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/fourree.html
My pages recommend purchase of the book by Campbell but now it is online for free. You will read that all plated coins are fakes. I disagree. We certainly can prove that most were not made in the regular mint but there is a difference between 'most' and 'all'. It is impossible to prove something does not exist.
http://numismatics.org/digitallibrary/ark:/53695/nnan10308

 

Thank you for this! I'll read through it.

So you are saying that some mints would be making plated coins on purpose right? Would this be done to "cheat" the people by the emperor? Or would the mint have been doing it to cheat the emperor?

 

I think what deserves note is that (contemporary)plated fourrees actually circulated in ancient times, whereas later copies did not. In that effect, fourrees retain more numismatic and historical value as ancient counterfeits, than do fakes intended to deceive modern collectors.

They too have an interesting 'story' to tell. Were they made by unscrupulous mint workers risking life and limb to embezzle from the Republic/Empire? As you've alluded to, could some official mints in a pinch have been ordered to produce them for some emergency cash purposes?

Due to the quality of the devices on many ancient fourrees, one could feasibly suggest that there must have been some connection to the official dies; whether they might have been stolen and smuggled, or that a skilled celator opted to freelance.

Once successfully used in monetary transactions and circulated, ancient fourrees became currency.

While most are emptied from pockets and accumulated into change jars; only to see the light of day when finally taken to a bank to be cashed; even our modern U.S. one cent piece(Lincoln penny) has evolved into a fourree.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if there is any written stories of this sort of thing. It would even make a good novel.

 

I am saying nothing but that those who claim to know tend to make assumptions based on scanty evidence and proving a hundred plated issues to be counterfeits does not say anything about the 101st. I have always considered the possibility that issuing plated coins in the name of an adversary so as to discredit him might possibly explain why the Imperatorial period has so very many plated coins. I do not know and am not hopeful of this being a question with easy answer.

 

Whoever issued them, they do have some value as numismatic antiquities and probably a few obvious ones belong in a collection of ancients. But, caveat emptor, my experience is that dealers try to sell these coins at about 75% of what they would sell as the genuine article but if one tries to sell one to the same dealer feel good if you get offered 20% of what they would offer for a genuine coin. As I said, having a few as ancient curiosities, to be able to show that counterfeiting was invented the day after coinage was is just fine, but as investments, not a wise choice. One of the few that I have is a scarce coin, one of Sextus Pompey, and it is a possible, maybe even probable, fourree, some dark spots, what looks like thin silver and it is light weight and crudely struck, except for the actual image of Pompey, which is not bad. The dealer I bought it from noted on the envelope that it might be a plated coin so I knew what I was buying and the price was about 1/3 of what it would have been as a genuine coin. Also, given that Sextus Pompey was in big trouble when the coin was minted it is possible that a wretched strike was exactly what his military mint was striking. Anyway, here is the coin below. At 2.7 grams it is pretty light for anything not a plated coin. From the appearance of wear it looks like it circulated somewhere for some time.

 

The original Greek text states explicitly that the coin is a "denarius" (δηνάριον), bearing the image and inscription of Caesar. There have been many debates in this forum and elsewhere as to which coins may or may not have been available to the historical Jesus during his ministry but that is really a separate question.

 

That is an obvious fourree with core exposure but very desirable. I believe I recall seeing others of the type. Mine (2.9g) is the other 'common' type from Sextus and was sold to me by a well respected dealer Charles Wolfe in 1990. He was hesitant to sell it to me until I convinced him I knew what a fourree was. It was $90 and shows minimal core exposure. I would estimate a similarly worn solid at $2k??? That was his and my opinion then of a proper down value for a fourree. I no longer buy them because people are paying too much.

 

Yes, but of which Caesar, Julius, Augustus or Tiberius?

 

This forum is really cool. I posted looking to confirm my coin and learn more about the abbreviations, and ended up learning about biblical history and controversies, as well as how to identify ancient forgeries and why they too have value. Thanks friends!

 

The text has only "Caesar". The historical implication, of course, is Tiberius. Julius and Augustus were no longer collecting taxes by the time Jesus began to preach.

My suspicion, however, is that the evangelist intentionally left the specific identity of 'Caesar' open for rhetorical effect. The Caesar collecting taxes from the community for whom the gospel was composed would have been Nero.