Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;GDJMSP, post: 2094434, member: 112&quot;]Nope, all I&#039;m suggesting is that people use their heads and think. And maybe, check out a little bit of history.</p><p><br /></p><p>Paper coin rolls are one example. Close as I&#039;ve ever been to find out they not invented until the late 1800&#039;s, and it was many years before they saw much use, let alone widespread use. That began in the 1930&#039;s. Of course gold was pulled from circulation in &#039;33. So I doubt very many gold coins were ever in a paper roll.</p><p><br /></p><p>So what else happened to gold coins ? Well these machines, one was invented in 1889, the other 1890. I&#039;m just using them as examples.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/kj4AAOSwqu9U2BVp/$_57.JPG" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/IpIAAOSwrklU4tc7/$_57.JPG" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The second obviously was not used to dispense gold coins. But they were used in stores, banks, and various businesses. The first one however was specifically designed to dispense both small change, dollars, and gold. Here is a quote taken from the history of the company - </p><p><br /></p><p><i>&quot;The object of the machine was to make a given payment of change or gold by the depression of a single key, thus eliminating the work of selecting the coins necessary to make the payment.&quot;</i></p><p><br /></p><p>Now even if these banks or businesses didn&#039;t have one of these machines you can bet that they had something that looked like this. And no, I can&#039;t find any pictures of actual vintage examples, but they were quite common. Just about everybody had one, and yes they had slots for all US coin denominations just as the machines did.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://www.usbanksupply.com/store/photos/530.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The point I am getting to here is that gold coins didn&#039;t just sit in bags in the bank&#039;s vaults, they were used. No they didn&#039;t see as much circulation as the minor coins, but they were used. But more than that they were made &quot;available&quot; for use for customers who wanted gold as opposed to paper. So a lot of the coins were in those machines or trays, just in case. But many of them probably never actually were distributed to customers.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, yes these coins were in the banks hands, and they may not have ever been given out. But if a coin was in one of those machines or trays - would you say that coin was &quot;in circulation&quot; ? I sure would. And they no doubt received a high point wear from being there. Also from being counted at the end of every day.</p><p><br /></p><p>It is from examples like this that a lot of gold coins, maybe a whole lot more than some think, got that high point wear that you speak of so often. They didn&#039;t get it from being in rolls because they were never in rolls. They didn&#039;t get it from being in bags because once those actually in bags were delivered to the banks and left in the bags, those bags just sat still, in the vault. Just like the Morgan dollars that just sat still in the govt. vaults for decades. They weren&#039;t moved around and counted every day, they just sat there.</p><p><br /></p><p>Do a whole lot of Saints have high point wear ? Yes, I absolutely agree they do. Do they all ? No, they do not. But we&#039;ll negate that argument as that&#039;s about all it is and it will never be settled short of a trip to a coin show with disagreeing parties to actually settle it. </p><p><br /></p><p>But that argument doesn&#039;t make any of the above go away. And any high point wear that any of those coins has, a lot of it came from sources like the examples I&#039;ve presented - a lot of it. And since there are examples like that, it becomes harder and harder to make a claim that high point wear on Saints all came from the coins being stored in bags. And since there is no way that high point wear received in bags can be differentiated from high point wear received while the coins were in those machines or trays, then it becomes pretty much impossible in my mind to claim that any coin with it, only came from a bag of uncirculated coins.&nbsp; </p><p><br /></p><p>And let&#039;s not forget about all those gold coins that were distributed to customers, were actually put into circulation, and then received high point wear. They count too, and there is no way to tell them from any of the others either.</p><p><br /></p><p>The end result, collectors want their Saints to be graded MS. They don&#039;t want them to be graded AU, so that is exactly what the TPGs give them. And they come up with a convenient, though extremely improbable, excuse to do so.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in