Thread ATS about "rampant gradeflation"

I was JUST literally about to say this. If you think you can grade from photos that aren't even standardized or heck even truview, you're mistaken. You can be close in your educated guess, but it's not truly grading. Hence the all over the board guesses in GTG. And also a philosophical point, in those threads are people answering what grade did the coin GET or what grade do THEY think it really is?

 

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I actually think that the "+" designation is an effective tool to stop/slow gradeflation. Prior to that, the TPGs needed to make a tough decision about coins that are high end for one grade but low end for the next grade. Now, instead of elevating the grade, they can keep the lower grade while still recognizing the coin's superior attributes by giving it the "+" designation. Collectors and dealers have always sought PQ coins, it makes sense that the TPGs tell us what coins they think are PQ for an assigned grade.

 

That is why when I do GTG threads, I usually ask "Guess the assigned grade." It helps cut down on the confusion.

 

Paul . correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you don't believe in gradeflation , so how is + or * going to help . Just playing devils advocate here .

 

On that note, would that mean that you feel CAC and now the new "grade enhancement" stickers are a healthy addition in the fight against gradeflation?

 

+1

And I think this is a poor business model that will hurt rather than help PCGS long term. If I were David Hall, I would be angry to see the company I started decline because (in my opinion) of the smug, arrogant, and short-sighted person that is currently the President of that organization.

 

I agree with you in part and disagree with you in part. Although the "+" designation is supposedly used for coins that are high end for the grade, in many instances, it appears (at least to me) that PCGS uses it to bump up coins with excellent eye appeal even when the coin is otherwise toward the median/lower end of the grade. So, I still see grade inflation in that sense. A MS65+ is a higher grade than MS65.

And in reference to grade inflation general, and whether it is intentional, I am curious as to your opinion here. PCGS openly announces on its website that it will bump up a coin up to two full grades for exceptional eye appeal. I don't believe this was always the case. So in that sense, I do see some intentional changing of standards. I also see that the PL/DPL/DMPL standards have changed substantially (although admittedly in the reverse direction), so I do think some of it is intentional.

 

Gradeflation is real, I just don't believe it is related to a deliberate loosing of grading standards. Rather, I believe that it is the natural result of the subjectivity in grading combined with the financial incentive associated with higher grades.

Most people believe that the TPGs deliberately loosen grading standards in order to boost coin submissions. I believe that they understand that consistency is what drives profits.

 

I don't know what "grade enhancement" stickers are but I do believe that the CAC mitigates gradeflation.

 

This is where it gets convoluted. The exceptions related to market grading are intentional. Allowances for roll friction and eye appeal are absolutely intentional and have resulted in an increased grade for many coins, but that does not mean that the TPGs have deliberately loosened their standard related to numerical grading for coins that don't have a market grading exception.

 

Amen Brother.......put a green oval on a slab and the dealer selling it immediately thinks the coin is worth scads more than a slab without one........

 

There is another thread that refers to "grade enhancement" stickers. My point is, how specific do you feel a coin needs to be graded? Why not just start using decimals? Such as MS67.1 or AU58.75? I feel like these people are inflating away the value of everyone's current collection by creating a market of collectors that want stars and stickers. "Sure we can bring your collection up to market value, and it will only cost you twenty bucks a coin!"

 

Gradeflation, is a necessary evil that allows the coin bubble to expand and interest in the "hobby" to inflate.

Whining about it is a fruitless exercise because the only thing that really matters, is what people "believe" their coins are worth and what they are willing to pay for them.

There are ignorant newbies and there are experienced professionals within this hobby. Nobody can protect the ignorant because they usually have a fistful of money and just jump right into the fray.

The professional, on the other hand, understands the intricacies of the coin "market" and will utilize that understanding to their favor.

Gradeflation threads will NOT protect the ignorant nor will they change anything. Its just comparative discussion.

 

I hope you are kidding. TPGs struggle enough with the 11 point MS range and you want to add decimals?

 

As an ignorant newbie, I would contend that stars and stickers ARE the decimal system.

 

No. CAC stickers claim to separate solid and high end coins from low end pieces for the grade. This creates two divisions within a grade not 10. And the star is for eye appeal and is independent of the grade.

 

From what I understood, eye appeal is not independent of the grade and I think you misunderstood my post. I do not think there should be a decimal system but was making a contention there already is one regardless if it's two divisions within a grade or ten. Any division of a whole number can be expressed as a decimal.

 

I did misunderstand your post.

 

Gradeflation increases the value of the coin that is upgraded but decreases the value of the higher graded coins. You can't blame the TPGs for inflating the overall value of coins.

 

Biggest mistake by the TPGs, IMO.

Just give it 1 grade....these guys are sometimes off by 1-2 grades, and now they want to give pluses and stars ? GMAFB......

Better to have undergraded 'strong' coins and overgraded 'weak' coins for the grade than to pretend we can properly segment coins.

And CAC's A-B-C trichotomy is even more ridiculous, IMO.