Thoughts on NGC/NCS Conservation?

GDJMSP, posted:"I agree, it really doesn't matter - because when it's done properly you can't tell that it's been done. ......

And Fin, this next part is for you - ...... except by using deductive reasoning.

So what's that mean exactly ? It's pretty simple really. In many cases, not all of course but in many cases, one can tell that a coin has been properly cleaned simply by carefully looking at the coin, observing what you see, and then reasoning out how it got to be that way.

For example, in some cases a coin may have been covered with dirt and grime, but then it was properly cleaned. But, some small bits of that dirt and grime may still remain in the more protected areas. Or, a coin may have been covered with unsightly toning, in some cases even black. But then the coin was properly cleaned by dipping it, but some small bits of the toning may remain here and there in the more protected areas, but nowhere else. In both cases deductive reasoning tells you that the coin has been properly cleaned."

I have one tiny disagreement. Neither of the above coins was properly cleaned if any tarnish or debris was left on it.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Males don't see dirt, it's an evolutionary biological imperative.

I'm not sure how it applies here, but the way to wash a pot to female standards: Just wash it three times to male standards.

 

I hate to break the bad news to many of you but RB Uncirculated Lincoln and Indian cents can be turned into passible RED Uncs to a trained eye using chemicals. I've seen it done in the 1970's using several chemical baths at a jewelry/coin store! One of the baths was Copper Sulfate. Large cents must be are harder to do because of their size. I knew a chemist in NJ that was getting his "worked" coins slabbed and bragging about it. Mechanically altered "Red" Indians and Lincolns have also gotten past the TPGS for a span of several years but not so much anymore. The process was much finer than old-time whizzing that could be easily detected from a foot away.

I've been trying to buy one of these altered red cents for my teaching set but red unc copper in a slab is expensive besides these alterations are probably looked up in collections as IMO, the TPGS finally got wise to these alterations due to the greed of the folks making them!

 

You had specifically said "I say that because even the population numbers of all US cents that have graded and slabbed as Red far outnumber all the other cents, RB and BN, combined.". The RB and BN cents not being worth grading has everything to do with why the population reports are the way they are, not because there are more RD cents than BN

 

I fully get you point trying to say they all are and as before I fully reject the nothing that they all have and the population reports aren't support they have been at all. Some certainly have been doesn't mean all have. Plenty of people have red cents from their child hood that they've had for 50 or 60 or even 70 years that are still red.

The idea that there are none that survived without being dipped is just as silly as the idea that they all did. The real number lies between those two positions and it's not unreasonable to believe that 1 percent, or half a percent, or a quarter of a percent or even just a tenth of a percent stayed red on it's own.