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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 3525331, member: 24314&quot;]Jaelus, posted: &quot;Why is it so important to you to distinguish between a faint whisp or high point rub versus a hit, to the detriment of the clarity of the grading scale?&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">I already TRIED to explain the difference to you and other members twice.&nbsp; A hit and a rub are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS that affect a coin differently.&nbsp; Think of a hairline vs a scratch.&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie10" alt=":oops:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> <i>Actually, that is <b>not</b> the same...sorry.</i></span></i></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">&nbsp; </span></i></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">I recommend you and all collectors try to get out to CO for the Summer Seminar Program.&nbsp; It is informative and great fun.</span></i> </p><p><br /></p><p>baseball21, posted:&nbsp; &quot;The TPGs aren&#039;t arbitrarily changing trying to get resubmissions, they&#039;re just keeping up with the times while others aren&#039;t.&nbsp;&nbsp; The market is what causes grading to evolve not the other way around.&nbsp; Grading had been evolving and changing long before the TPGs existed which is something a lot of people forget.&nbsp; Every generation thinks they grade the best and future generations preferences and standards are lose or not as good etc.&nbsp; This is nothing new and been going on long before the TPGs and will probably go on as long as people collect coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>If anything the TPGs evolve as a reflection of the market and what people want, not the other way around.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">While most of this is true, $$$$ just might also be involved.&nbsp; Imagine this <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie30" alt=":bucktooth:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />stupid example: Service A get&#039;s several hundred coins a week from Joe dealer.&nbsp; Joe does not like the grades on his last order.&nbsp; He calls the service to bitch and is not satisfied. He says the coins were graded too tight.&nbsp; What if Joe tells Service A to shove it and takes his business to Service B.&nbsp; No big deal, right?&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></span></i></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Jaelus, posted: &quot;Let&#039;s be real here. The ANA hasn&#039;t been keeping up with updating the grading standards, and they&#039;re not going to. That&#039;s on them. The TPGs are working with grading standards every day where the rubber meets the road.</p><p><br /></p><p>There are <i>many</i> examples of professions where standards are somewhat ignored and independently updated because the organization setting them does not respond to changes fast enough (or at all) and people cannot afford to wait for them to do so.&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066"><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie11" alt=":rolleyes:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Before your time, the ANA published grading standards.&nbsp; Unfortunately, they messed up a few things but they did not screw up the long-time, original, and ONLY STANDARD for Mint State: &quot;No trace of wear.&quot;&nbsp; Unfortunately, much of the commercial market ignored the ANA&#039;s published opinion principally because the &quot;bastardized technical system&quot; they <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie30" alt=":bucktooth:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> adopted had no relation to how coins were being graded in the market especially with regard to a coin&#039;s Strike &amp; Eye-Appeal.&nbsp; This forced ANACS to revise their opinion and many MS-65 became MS-63&#039;s.</span></i> </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Jaelus, posted:&nbsp; &quot;Why can&#039;t evolving<b> standards</b> be a mix of TPG innovation <i>and</i> market desires?&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p>I grew up in a family with a collection going back three generations, but started collecting very seriously in my early 30s. Now as a 40 year old advanced collector, I look at many AU58 coins with booming luster and eye appeal to spare, and likewise coins with pristine fields and light high point rub (especially gold) that clearly have not seen circulation, and I think to myself that it&#039;s only a disservice for these coins to be in AU58 holders. I don&#039;t see much aesthetic difference between wear and bag marks, and would rather see a touch of high point rub on an AU64 than have an MS61 hairlined dog. As a consumer, I would rather see TPG grades that make sense based on quality. I frequently deliberately cross PCGS world coins to NGC to get a lower grade. I&#039;m not looking for gradeflation, just common sense.&quot; </p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">As a 40 year old advanced <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie26" alt=":bookworm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> collector, your opinion and desires mean a great deal to you - as they should.&nbsp; That&#039;s why IMO this may have been a better way to express yourself:&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Why can&#039;t evolving<b> OPINIONS </b>be a mix of TPG innovation and market desires?&quot;</span></i>&nbsp; <i><span style="color: #330066">There are no &quot;Standards.&quot;</span></i>&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie3" alt=":(" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Razz, posted:&nbsp; &quot;And that is why for profit corporations should not have control over grading standards. Corporations have only 1 objective, to maximize profits for shareholders; if you don&#039;t beleive this then you know nothing about business.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">The ideal TPGS would be owned by a trillionaire who did not give a damn about any of us and our stupid fixations with coins!&nbsp; He would be totally independent and have a team of millionaire grading experts of the caliber of the guys/gals we all respect.&nbsp; The graders would not be paid and work only for the fun of sticking it to all the loose grading that has been done in the past decades!.&nbsp; Grading opinions and slabbing would be free.&nbsp;&nbsp; A precise standard would be published and ONLY the coin&#039;s condition of preservation from its as struck condition would matter.&nbsp; A coin&#039;s rarity, provenance, value, age, method of manufacture, eye-appeal, etc.&nbsp; would not be considered.&nbsp; A corroded, splotchy-toned, flatly-struck coin with a hole in it would be graded using those words + a # corresponding to the design details remaining.&nbsp; NOTHING at all could influence the opinion of the 3 experts on each coin and they would not GAFF what any person in the world thought of their opinion which due to their knowledge, examination methods, and strict standards would NOT CHANGE over time or due to market conditions.&nbsp; </span></i></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066"><br /></span></i></p><p><i><span style="color: #330066">This would eliminate the need for these discussions we all love.</span></i>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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