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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3524536, member: 112"]I guess that depends on who wish to include in the group of "everyone". And I also think you have to include the time factor when discussing this. As for this - Mike I've been posting and talking about the TPGs loosening their grading standards for almost 15 years now. And when I first started, it was not just on this forum but on several others as well. And even way back then, I stated that knowledgeable people, people who know coins, were all to well aware of the standards being loosened. However, the caveat of knowledgeable people had to be applied - because at the time, they were the only ones who were aware of it. Everybody else, they just flat refused to believe it. And emphatically defended the TPGs and claimed they had never changed their standards at all ! As time went on, more and more people began to believe it because they too could see it with their own eyes. But, it is has only been in the past few years, I'll say 3, that the numbers of those in the hobby, who believe and readily acknowledge that standards have indeed been drastically loosened, has increased. Today, I'd guess that somewhere around 75-80% "knows it", but there are still those die-hards who steadfastly refuse to believe it. Can you remember the 1st time you heard that explanation ? I mean it's quite common, it's repeated over and over again in articles and on just about every coin forum there is. The 1st time I heard it was right around '86-'87, and it was used to explain and justify the creation of modern grading, grading that included the use of criteria like quality of luster and eye appeal being used for the first time when grading coins. And back then, even I agreed with it, in fact I still do agree with it. But as I'm sure you'll remember, not a whole lot of people did agree with it back then. Now here's the thing. That explanation, reason, was a valid one back in '86-'87 because that's when the change of including new grading criteria took place. And that grading, the grading standards being used, stayed the same until 2004. But in 2004 all those grading standards that had been in use for 18 years went away - they were all loosened, across the board. And in only one year the population numbers exploded, some of them exponentially, and that's documented in published, paper copies, of pop numbers from those years. However, by the time 2 years had passed, there were more and more reports and complaints about the sudden change in grading standards - some were in articles, some were on coin forums. By the time 3 years had passed, CAC was created because even they had to acknowledge how drastically, and suddenly, grading standards had changed, loosened. But ya know what, the TPGS flatly denied that standards had changed at all ! According to them, they were still grading coins by the very same standards they had always used. It was still a few years down the road before that statement - "Grading has evolved because we have learned more about how to grade coins." - became popular again. So what did they learn literally overnight Mike ? And if they had learned something, why did they steadfastly deny, and still do deny to this day, that they had changed grading standards ? And if they "learned" something, why won't they publish what they learned ? If they "learned" something, why won't they publish new grading standards so everybody knows exactly what those standards are ? And that brings me to my reason, my answer to the question I asked. They won't admit that they changed all the grading standards because they are afraid to do so ! You were there, a part of it, and I remember it all too well myself, though I certainly didn't have the personal involvement you did, so I'm sure you remember it too. But it took a long time for the TPGs to gain the confidence of the hobby, to gain the trust of collectors and dealers alike. And the only reason they gained that trust was because of their consistency, because they followed the same grading standards - for years ! So if they fessed up, publicly admitted drastically loosening their grading standards across the board - they are afraid doing that would cause them to loose the trust they had worked so hard for all those years to gain. They are afraid they'd go right back to where they were when they first started. New system, new grading standards - means you gotta earn our trust all over again ! And it would mean explanations, publishing those new standards, and that would drive submissions down. Yeah it's all about the money alright. But what money ? I know, pretty sure you know too, and the money were talking about has nothing to do with the value of coins. No, the money were talking about has to do the money the TPGs make from submissions. And that brings us precisely to why they changed, drastically loosened standards to begin with. It's because the coins ran out, there weren't any more to submit any longer. Of sure, moderns still existed and they could always count on those to bring some money in. But let's not forget that until 2001 NGC wouldn't even grade moderns at all ! They saw the handwriting on the wall even then. Submissions of classic coins drastically dropping because there weren't any classics left to be graded. So they started up a whole new area to keep "their money" flowing in. But classics were still their bread and butter, classics are what brought the real money in. But by the end of 2003, they knew it wasn't enough. So all the TPGs drastically loosened their grading standards. And it didn't take long for knowledgeable people to figure it out - they saw it the same time I did. They knew they could take all of their previously graded coins and submit them again, and get upgrades across the board. And so they began doing just that. And they even started slabbing coins to increase submissions that way. Something they had sworn, in writing, that they would never do. Well, guess what ? In just a fraction of the amount of time it took to get the vast majority of classic coins graded the 1st go round, they were all graded again, upgraded this time. And anybody who wants to look at the published submission numbers over the years can easily see that. took 18 years to get to point A, only took 5 or less to get to point B. So what to do ? Loosen the standards again and start it all over. And that's what they've done. So yeah, you're right, the changes will continue because they'll have to if they want to keep the money, their money, coming in. There's a finite number of classic coins out there - always has been. And classics are where the money is - always has been. But how far can they go ? How many times can they loosen grading standards ? Today, as you said, everybody knows it, and that hard won trust has been slipping and slipping and slipping. So eventually something has to give. My prediction is they'll go right back to 1986-'87 again - and they will tighten standards to what they were back then. And that ALL those coins will have to be graded all over again. And the circle will start it's next go round <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Boy ! Don't that sound like fun ! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Ya said you wanted to know what I had to say Mike - now I've said it.[/QUOTE]

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