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<p>[QUOTE="Lehigh96, post: 3507546, member: 15309"]What on Earth are you talking about? I have a first edition of PCGS' OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION which was published in 1997 and it certainly addresses Roll & Cabinet Friction. Here are two relevant quotes from the book:</p><p><br /></p><p>Chapter 3: Grading Techniques and Technical Grading: Technical versus Market Grading: </p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">"When you hear a numismatist say that technically a coin is AU58 but it will grade MS61 or MS62, what is he/she telling you? How can a coin "grade" two different ways? How can a coin be almost uncirculated and also be uncirculated? Can an MS66 coin have friction? Does my MS65 Saint-Gaudens double eagle have roll friction? YES. Though a coin may have slight "friction" on its highest points, it may never have been in circulation, so technically speaking it is uncirculated. Technically, it also has slight friction--though the market dictates an uncirculated price, not an AU price. The MS66 coin may have slight "contact" on its highest points, though it may be friction from other coins. Most MS65 Saints have "roll" or "coin" friction on the breast and leg of Miss Liberty. In truth, the only Saints that do not have broken luster on their high points are the counterfeits!"</span></p><p><br /></p><p>That section goes on to detail the amount of friction that is allowed on coin based on size, metal composition, and striking collar. The two main points are that "roll/cabinet" friction has been part of their public grading standards for decades and that all Saints suffer from high point friction. What that means is that if you don't allow for "roll friction" you essentially relegate every uncirculated Saint to the realm of AU, because you are stuck in the mindset that "wear is wear."</p><p><br /></p><p>Chapter 5: Elements of a Coin's Grade: Bag/Roll Coin Friction</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff">"When coins rub together in a bag or roll, the highest points of the coins come in contact with each other and may "break" the luster slightly. This bag or roll friction is usually noticed on larger coins (dollar, eagles, double eagles, etc.) but other series also may suffer from this (SLQ are especially vulnerable). On Saint-Gaudens double eagles, the frost on the breast and leg of Miss Liberty often is broken, the field remaining undisturbed. These coins are heavy, and slight rubbing among the coins results in the type of wear. Upon observing real wear on a Saint, one notices the brown or grayish look as opposed to the bright look of coin against coin friction. The missing frost is "skinned" off the coin by other coins, but the luster should still "roll" when tilted in a good light source. SLQs have this skinned look also on the knee of Miss Liberty. Friction from circulation discolors the knee, where coin-on-coin contact is still silvery-looking. When a coin is not frosty on the high points, coin-on-coin friction is more difficult to detect."</span></p><p><br /></p><p>Here is an example of what they are talking about.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://i.imgur.com/1YYO9TR.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Now Doug says that the discoloration they speak of is hogwash, what is your opinion?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Lehigh96, post: 3507546, member: 15309"]What on Earth are you talking about? I have a first edition of PCGS' OFFICIAL GUIDE TO COIN GRADING AND COUNTERFEIT DETECTION which was published in 1997 and it certainly addresses Roll & Cabinet Friction. Here are two relevant quotes from the book: Chapter 3: Grading Techniques and Technical Grading: Technical versus Market Grading: [COLOR=#0000ff]"When you hear a numismatist say that technically a coin is AU58 but it will grade MS61 or MS62, what is he/she telling you? How can a coin "grade" two different ways? How can a coin be almost uncirculated and also be uncirculated? Can an MS66 coin have friction? Does my MS65 Saint-Gaudens double eagle have roll friction? YES. Though a coin may have slight "friction" on its highest points, it may never have been in circulation, so technically speaking it is uncirculated. Technically, it also has slight friction--though the market dictates an uncirculated price, not an AU price. The MS66 coin may have slight "contact" on its highest points, though it may be friction from other coins. Most MS65 Saints have "roll" or "coin" friction on the breast and leg of Miss Liberty. In truth, the only Saints that do not have broken luster on their high points are the counterfeits!"[/COLOR] That section goes on to detail the amount of friction that is allowed on coin based on size, metal composition, and striking collar. The two main points are that "roll/cabinet" friction has been part of their public grading standards for decades and that all Saints suffer from high point friction. What that means is that if you don't allow for "roll friction" you essentially relegate every uncirculated Saint to the realm of AU, because you are stuck in the mindset that "wear is wear." Chapter 5: Elements of a Coin's Grade: Bag/Roll Coin Friction [COLOR=#0000ff]"When coins rub together in a bag or roll, the highest points of the coins come in contact with each other and may "break" the luster slightly. This bag or roll friction is usually noticed on larger coins (dollar, eagles, double eagles, etc.) but other series also may suffer from this (SLQ are especially vulnerable). On Saint-Gaudens double eagles, the frost on the breast and leg of Miss Liberty often is broken, the field remaining undisturbed. These coins are heavy, and slight rubbing among the coins results in the type of wear. Upon observing real wear on a Saint, one notices the brown or grayish look as opposed to the bright look of coin against coin friction. The missing frost is "skinned" off the coin by other coins, but the luster should still "roll" when tilted in a good light source. SLQs have this skinned look also on the knee of Miss Liberty. Friction from circulation discolors the knee, where coin-on-coin contact is still silvery-looking. When a coin is not frosty on the high points, coin-on-coin friction is more difficult to detect."[/COLOR] Here is an example of what they are talking about. [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1YYO9TR.jpg[/IMG] Now Doug says that the discoloration they speak of is hogwash, what is your opinion?[/QUOTE]
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